Scenic, Skywest or Pinnacle

[TDK90]

Thanks guys...I'm thinking Scenic is a good option. What's the crashpad situation like in Vegas? Do many guys commute?

 

[psysicx]

Do most people leave Scenic for regionals or do they go on to the few majors that are hiring?And another good one would be scenic, skywest,or ameriflight.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Is it possible to commute from ATL and work for scenic. I love Vegas, wife doesn't.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Don't think it'd work to try to commute scenic. F/O's are four on three off You would be wasting day one and day three to commute from ATL. Captains are five on two off so tougher there. Vegas is very cheap to live so the pay would go pretty far for an apartment.

The hourly pay for scenic looks horrible but they pay ground time as well so it works out to be on par with most regionals and better than almost any 19 seat operator.

 

[rightrudder]

Is it possible to commute from ATL and work for scenic. I love Vegas, wife doesn't.

What happened to your military gig? Didn't work out for you, eh?

 

[Jim]

Okay... Also, is it really quality flight time? Are you flying cross country at all? Do you ever get ANY kind of actual? Do you fly any more than 3 routes? Pay doesn't look too great for you guys either. If the guy asking the question is like most pilots, he wants to go into a career at the regionals and the majors and the quickest way to go would be right to SkyWest. 1000 hours of PIC... great, but that takes a year AND who knows what this industry is going to do in the future. Not many airlines hire street captains.

It all comes down to your seniority number. The sooner you're on... the better!


PS - Jim, sorry to here such a nice guy was furloughed. Fly Navy? The Navy is obsolete.

Quality of lfight time - 121 time and turbine

Cross Country - all except the training flights

Actual - not as much as some, but I flew just 938 hours in tha last 12 months with 78 of it actual. Not quite the 10% average but close. And it was all hand flown not watching the autopilot.

1000 PIC - try getting hired at Southwest, Fedex, UPS or JetBlue without it. Although not required at other majors, it makes you a lot more competative.

Quickest way to a major - get hired at Scenic at 600 hours, upgrade to Captain at 1500 hours 1 year later, have a 1000 turbine PIC by the end of your second year, go to a regional for some jet time. In 4 years you will have 3500+ hours total with 2900+ of it multi turbine 121 and 1000+ of it 121 turbine PIC. You'll have every competative block checked - 121, turbine, jet and PIC.

Seniority number - if your goal is to spend your career at a rgional, than by all means get hired at that regional as soon as possible. If your goal is a major, than you need to work to be competative to be hired at that major as soon as possible (that is the seniority number to worry about). I know all about seniority numbers - I have one at a d@mn good airline - at 2 d@mn good airlines actually.

Pay - when you consider that Scenic pays you for your ground time too, we are probably close to the highest paid 19 seat regional pilots in the industry. There is another Scenic thread on flightinfo were I discussed the pay.

Tour pilot (from another of your posts) - Not hardly. Scheduled 121 just like any other regional.

Navy obsolete - Once again you do not know what you are talking about. Power projection from the sea is the mission and the Navy/Marine Corps do it best. No worries about basing, overflights or diplomatic clearances.

I'm glad you think I'm a nice guy, but as other have said - you are insulting as well as ignorant. You are now talking about two areas (airlines and military) of which you know nothing about (according to your profile and from the contents of your posts). From another post elsewhere on flightinfo I believe you were recently hired at Sky West. A little advise - when you start there, keep your mouth shut. Just listen and learn. I don't think you try and piss poeple off, but you do a good job of it.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Thanks for the info.

I injured my lower back in training. I posted in depth about it right after I got back and was trying to settle up with the army.

 

[Jim]

Do most people leave Scenic for regionals or do they go on to the few majors that are hiring?And another good one would be scenic, skywest,or ameriflight.

In the two years prior to 9/11/2001 during the last big major hiring boom:
5 to Hawaiian
1 to United
4 to Champion
1 to Allegiant

Since 911/2001:
2 to Alligaint
3 to AWA
1 to Pace

Prior to my first stint at Scenic there were also a couple that went to Delta, US Airways and Southwest. This is what I can remeber off the top of my head about Scenic pilots I personally know. There have been others, however the vast majority will go on to a regional and get some jet time. Many have gone on to fractionals and corporate flying also.

 

[Jim]

Scenic Pay

Since it keeps getting brought up, here is what I posted in another thread on Scenic's pay. The other thread can be found at: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=54897&page=2&pp=15&highlight=scenic. There has actually been another improvement in pay in that we are now getting paid extra if our duty day goes over 12 hours. Further, although the official policy is 1.5x for flying on days off, we usually get 2x pay. (plus it is not mandatory, you can refuse to be scheduled over 12 hours and refuse to fly on your days off.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ILStoMinimums
The only thing about Scenic, I'm not sure about that $13.50 an hour no matter how low time you are. That's brutal.

That figure is actually misleading. FOs get $13.50/hour per flight hour. Pilots also get paid 1/2 their hourly rate for all ground time ($6.75 for FOs). Most regional pilots get paid only for flight time. Historically, about 1/2 of a Scenic pilot's pay comes from ground time (more in the winter, less in the summer - it averages out to a little over 50% for a year). So the equivalent hourly rate for comparison to other 19 seat turboprop 121 airlines is $20.25/hr. If you go to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/ , you will find that it is a competative payrate.

Same for the Captains. I believe a 1st year Captain makes about $22.60 to $23.00/hr (not sure exactly). the equivalent including ground time is $33.90 to $34.50/hr. That's a competative 19 seat turbo-prop Captain salary.

Further, Scenic Captains average about 130 hours/month pay in the slow months and up to 200 hours/month June to September. Last year, I was with Scenic for 6 months (June - December) during that time I averaged 156 hours pay per month. At my new 3rd year pay rate of $25.44, I would have earned $23,812 in 6 months or $47,624 for the year (in reality, the 3rd year rate was $23.55/hour than and I earned $22,042 for the 6 months or $44,084 for the year). An FO at 1st year pay of $13.50/hr would have earned $12,636 in that 6 months or $25,272 for the year. Since we have fewer Captains than FOs, the FO would realistically fly less but he would have made at least $20,000 to $22,000 for the year. Further, if the FO came to Scenic at anywhere above 1100 total time, he would have upgraded somewhere in the 6 to 9 month timeframe.

 

[SSDD]

I think that Scenic is a good job, however, with all due respect to the previous posters, if you actually have a choice of Skywest or Scenic, then the advantage would be to Skywest. The fact is that the majors are not hiring a whole lot, so you're looking to spend some time at the regional level.

I'm by no means an expert, but in talking to people, there seems to be over 100 former Scenic pilots at Skywest. So it seems like going directly to Skywest, or any other good regional would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Irish Pilot]

I think that Scenic is a good job, however, with all due respect to the previous posters, if you actually have a choice of Skywest or Scenic, then the advantage would be to Skywest. The fact is that the majors are not hiring a whole lot, so you're looking to spend some time at the regional level.

I'm by no means an expert, but in talking to people, there seems to be over 100 former Scenic pilots at Skywest. So it seems like going directly to Skywest, or any other good regional would be a step in the right direction.

Maybe....but if there is a hiring boom in 2007 or any year soon for that matter would you rather be at Skywest with 1ooo PIC and some jet time having gone to Scenic first or just another CRJ FO with no PIC which there are thousands of out there.

The fact is , Scenic can allow you to get the 121 Turbine PIC very quickly so you have that box checked. Thats a big step towards a National or Major and if either really start hiring to not have it doesnt make you very competitve....imagine how many crj-erj-saab-dojet-etc FOs there are out there with a few thousand hours. Im sure you ask any one of them if they could have a quick 1ooo PIC in their back pocket they would take it in a second.

 

[Jim]

I think that Scenic is a good job, however, with all due respect to the previous posters, if you actually have a choice of Skywest or Scenic, then the advantage would be to Skywest. The fact is that the majors are not hiring a whole lot, so you're looking to spend some time at the regional level.

I'm by no means an expert, but in talking to people, there seems to be over 100 former Scenic pilots at Skywest. So it seems like going directly to Skywest, or any other good regional would be a step in the right direction.

I think it is depends on each pilot's situation and career plans. For many, you are right. A 600 hour pilot is not going to get hired at Sky West. Of those 100 former Scenic pilots (and there are probably more) at Sky West, I at least 1/3 and maybe even 1/2 of them went there after getting their 1000 PIC at Scenic.

On the other hand, I have gotten PMs/e-mails recently from 2 Aloha pilots who fear they are going to be facing long term furloughs soon. Both are asking about Scenic because they lack turbine PIC and because they feel Scenic will give them a better income sooner. I have received other e-mails in the past from other regional pilots without any turbine PIC and no hope for any soon at their current employer.

I'm not saying Scenic is the answer for all, I'm just saying Scenic offers a lot of advantages. For me it was better pay and better quality of life while I await recall to Hawaiian than I could get at a regional or fractional. That management is not the enemy at Scenic is a big plus too.

I'm just trying to ensure Scenic is fairly represented and that all the information necessary to make an informed decision is available.

 

[Rook]

Jim you make a good argument for Scenic. Thanks for that. Too many guys have SJS. Good posts my man.

Rook

 

[Flywithmike]

Scenic is a great company and a fun place to work.

 

[FlyWithSean]

PS - Jim, sorry to here such a nice guy was furloughed. .

Obviously you've never flown with Jim before!

Actually you've never flown in a crew environment before! Don't worry just keep telling yourself that the CFI time you have is meaningful. Lazy eights and eights on pylons are very important in the REAL world.

Just keep saying this too yourself Steveair....Right rudder...right rudder....right rudder...flare...flare...flare.

 

[DHCaptain]

Confucious say: "When you argue with a fool, there are two fools arguing."

Steveair: It's quiet time.