Scenic, Skywest or Pinnacle

[TDK90]

Got interviews scheduled with all three, if you were fortunate to get offers from all of them which would would you go for and why?

 

[Skaff]

Got interviews scheduled with all three, if you were fortunate to get offers from all of them which would would you go for and why?

Are you serious?

 

[On Your Six]

Definitely Scenic. I hear the Caravan (out of Page) flies nice. Fun to do walk arounds in 120 degree heat. Maybe you'll get some C206 time if you're lucky.

Seriously, Skywest appears to be growing (especially with the impending ASA acquisition) and I hear upgrades are not too long. Although I am sure Scenic would be a cool job flying the Twotter in the Canyon, I would say Skywest would be the better bet if you actually want some jet time...

Good luck.

 

[rtmcfi]

Scenic, quick upgrade, get your 1000 pic, then go to SkyWest.

 

[Steveair]

SkyWest requires 1000 inhouse to upgrade. Don't waste your time at Scenic. Go to SkyWest. Pinnacle is done growing and hasn't had the greatest reputation lately. People are friendly at both SkyW and Pinn though. Don't know much about Scenic.

 

[Socalplt]

SkyWest requires 1000 inhouse to upgrade. Don't waste your time at Scenic. Go to SkyWest. Pinnacle is done growing and hasn't had the greatest reputation lately. People are friendly at both SkyW and Pinn though. Don't know much about Scenic.

Not true, SkyWest requires 1000 multi engine in a crew enviroment, which can be acquired anywhere. That being said I'd still go to SkyWest out of the three.

 

[kj6991]

Depends on where you want to live and what kind of flying you want to do. If none of that matters to you I would go with SkyWest in a heartbeat.

 

[BLing]

Put it this way, I have my foot in the door with Pinnacle and will have no problem getting into the right seat with them. Plenty of people who have the power are willing to help me move up to a flying job. However, I am only going to use this to my advantage if a become really really really desperate when the time comes. Thats all I got!

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Skywest requires 1000 hrs in-house PIC to upgrade....






























Wait a minute..

 

[Irish Pilot]

Definitely Scenic. I hear the Caravan (out of Page) flies nice. Fun to do walk arounds in 120 degree heat. Maybe you'll get some C206 time if you're lucky.

Seriously, Skywest appears to be growing (especially with the impending ASA acquisition) and I hear upgrades are not too long. Although I am sure Scenic would be a cool job flying the Twotter in the Canyon, I would say Skywest would be the better bet if you actually want some jet time...

Good luck.

Scenic doesnt have Caravans.....206s.....nor do we fly out of Page.
Its all 1900s and DHC-6-300s and flies out of Vegas.

 

[Irish Pilot]

Don't waste your time at Scenic.... Don't know much about Scenic.

Then dont make stupid comments about it. wtf?

 

[FlyWithSean]

I can't believe Jim hasn't posted here yet!

 

[AftCG182]

See my post in the other recent Scenic thread about bidding for a BE-1900 slot at Scenic.

Even though I've only been with Scenic for a few months, I can tell you that Scenic's a great company to work for. If flying an Otter or a BE-1900 gives you an inferiority complex, then you've got problems and should not apply here anyway.

JMHO

Dave

 

[Steveair]

I guess it would suffice to say that if you don't know much about Scenic, then you probably aren't qualified enough to say "Don't waste your time at Scenic".


Things that make you go..........WTF?!

Lets see... fly for an airline that's tiny and hardly anyone has heard of (and flying older aircraft), or get seniority with a good company that you can upgrade quickly in. There's a toss up. I was in no way trying to insult scenic guys but I think SkyWest is a better pick.

 

[Irish Pilot]

Lets see... fly for an airline that's tiny and hardly anyone has heard of (and flying older aircraft), or get seniority with a good company that you can upgrade quickly in. There's a toss up. I was in no way trying to insult scenic guys but I think SkyWest is a better pick.

With all due respect...it really depends on what a person is trying to do. Upgrade is quick at Scenic as well, and Scenic is a good company to work for. Who cares if Scenic is a smaller airline thats not as recognizeable in the industry. Do you think that matters at all?

Guess I shouldnt have expected anything more from a 1800+ hour flight instructor.

Scenic might give this guy the option to live in Vegas, sleep in his own bed every night, upgrade quickly, hand-fly a great aircraft into dirt and hard surface strips alike in lots of different weather, fly with a smaller group of pilots that are a great group of people, and grab 1ooo PIC and head off to something better (a regional of his choice, potentially a national, or a great corporate outfit). Or he could get on with Skywest, not get paid during training, live in Salt Lake City, and enter that regional world that everyone seems to be so happy about around here. Different strokes for different folks man.

In all seriousness I like Skywest and they are a great company making great strides with awesome equipment (and in fact right now a lot of guys leave Scenic for Skywest, some with 1ooo PIC some without), but they simply are two different companies and you dont know what the original poster is looking for.

Think about what you post. Maybe something like...

"I dont really know anything about Scenic, but Skywest seems to be a good well-known company with relatively quick upgrade so I would lean towards that." instead of gouging Scenic blindly.

Just a thought.

 

[Jim]

FlyWithSean -
Irish Pilot and AftGC182 have basically covered it....

T-Gates -
Thanks.

Steveair -
PM one of us your name and we'll make sure your are not faced with this choice in the future. Too bad, based on your profile you might have been looking at some quick turbine PIC time at a decent wage. BTW, Scenic is not a carrier hardly anyone has ever heard of. Scenic has a great reputation with other regionals for turning out high quality pilots who have no problems in training programs when they move on to "newer" aircraft. There are also hundreds of former Scenic/Twin Otter pilots at the majors with fond memories of the airline/air plane. Scenic has been around a very long time and has many loyal former employees.

What does Scenic have to offer:
- Probably close to the best 19 seat pay in the industry
- Quick turbine PIC
- Great way to get into the industry for low time pilots
- Home every night Otter guys, 1900s have overnights)
- Fun flying
- Management that listens to its pilots and cares about them

 

[Bluto]

Not to mention, if SkyWest purchases anyone (ASA, or whoever) upgrade time will likely skyrocket. (You'll wish you had that 1,000 pic when the 2007 hiring boom is in full swing )If I had it to do over again, the scenic deal sounds pretty sweet. It really depends on what you're looking for. If you are ready to make a regional your final resting place, get on with a big one as soon as possible. If you have aspirations to move on, you could do much worse than a place like Scenic.

 

[Steveair]

Okay... I looked up Scenic and I agree that the plus is hand flying and home every night. BUT, geez that's gotta be hot! I hope they let you guys fly in shorts. Also, is it really quality flight time? Are you flying cross country at all? Do you ever get ANY kind of actual? Do you fly any more than 3 routes? Pay doesn't look too great for you guys either. If the guy asking the question is like most pilots, he wants to go into a career at the regionals and the majors and the quickest way to go would be right to SkyWest. 1000 hours of PIC... great, but that takes a year AND who knows what this industry is going to do in the future. Not many airlines hire street captains.

It all comes down to your seniority number. The sooner you're on... the better!


As for whoever was ragging on an 1800 hr CFI... yeah, I'm sure your much more knowledgable on straight and level and doing no other manuevers or teaching anything. But I guess thats what you'd expect from a 1500 hour tour guide.

PS - Jim, sorry to here such a nice guy was furloughed. Fly Navy? The Navy is obsolete.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Okay... I looked up Scenic and I agree that the plus is hand flying and home every night. BUT, geez that's gotta be hot! I hope they let you guys fly in shorts. Also, is it really quality flight time? Are you flying cross country at all? Do you ever get ANY kind of actual? Do you fly any more than 3 routes? Pay doesn't look too great for you guys either. If the guy asking the question is like most pilots, he wants to go into a career at the regionals and the majors and the quickest way to go would be right to SkyWest. 1000 hours of PIC... great, but that takes a year AND who knows what this industry is going to do in the future. Not many airlines hire street captains.

It all comes down to your seniority number. The sooner you're on... the better!


As for whoever was ragging on an 1800 hr CFI... yeah, I'm sure your much more knowledgable on straight and level and doing no other manuevers or teaching anything. But I guess thats what you'd expect from a 1500 hour tour guide.

PS - Jim, sorry to here such a nice guy was furloughed. Fly Navy? The Navy is obsolete.

OK I wasn't going to weigh in on this but you just make such an easy target.
Many smart people couldn't care less about a "seniority number". This industry is in such a tailspin right now no one is safe. A seniority number and a dollar will buy you a nice hot cup of coffee. Now PIC turbine, there is some job security. If the infallible super regional you work for goes under after you have worked two years in the right seat your seniority number will not meet the insurance minimums for a decent corporate or 135 captain position but the PIC turbine flying "sightseeing tours" will. Also try to get any job flying heavy acft in cargo without 1000 PIC turbine and you will just find PFT (ugh). The best jobs in aviation right now (job security and pay) are in the cargo arena and these operators could care less about your seniority number only your PIC turbine (have you got experience in command of a complex acft). If you want to flame on someone for wasting their time why not look in the mirror and question your decisions about your career instead of knocking a company about which you know nothing, I'm sure you've made as many mistakes as the rest of us. I can think of no better place for a low time pilot to advance his or her career than Scenic airlines. Where else can you get upgraded the day you hit ATP mins and begin logging 121 turbine PIC.

 

[Irish Pilot]

Okay... I looked up Scenic and I agree that the plus is hand flying and home every night. BUT, geez that's gotta be hot! I hope they let you guys fly in shorts. Also, is it really quality flight time? Are you flying cross country at all? Do you ever get ANY kind of actual? Do you fly any more than 3 routes? Pay doesn't look too great for you guys either. If the guy asking the question is like most pilots, he wants to go into a career at the regionals and the majors and the quickest way to go would be right to SkyWest. 1000 hours of PIC... great, but that takes a year AND who knows what this industry is going to do in the future. Not many airlines hire street captains.

It all comes down to your seniority number. The sooner you're on... the better!


As for whoever was ragging on an 1800 hr CFI... yeah, I'm sure your much more knowledgable on straight and level and doing no other manuevers or teaching anything. But I guess thats what you'd expect from a 1500 hour tour guide.

PS - Jim, sorry to here such a nice guy was furloughed. Fly Navy? The Navy is obsolete.

Actually I did my share of instructing - in fact my last instructing job my clients paid $500 a day for my time, have more than 1500 now, and am not a tour guide. I fly turboprops 121 for a company associated with the tour industry. Funny a flight instructor like yourself should be so knowledgeable about the industry, but maybe that comes with the turf being an ingorant a$$hole. Once you get out into the industry a little you might find out whats really important...both to you and the industry.

Youre a winner buddy.

 

[TDK90]

Thanks guys...I'm thinking Scenic is a good option. What's the crashpad situation like in Vegas? Do many guys commute?

 

[psysicx]

Do most people leave Scenic for regionals or do they go on to the few majors that are hiring?And another good one would be scenic, skywest,or ameriflight.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Is it possible to commute from ATL and work for scenic. I love Vegas, wife doesn't.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Don't think it'd work to try to commute scenic. F/O's are four on three off You would be wasting day one and day three to commute from ATL. Captains are five on two off so tougher there. Vegas is very cheap to live so the pay would go pretty far for an apartment.

The hourly pay for scenic looks horrible but they pay ground time as well so it works out to be on par with most regionals and better than almost any 19 seat operator.

 

[rightrudder]

Is it possible to commute from ATL and work for scenic. I love Vegas, wife doesn't.

What happened to your military gig? Didn't work out for you, eh?

 

[Jim]

Okay... Also, is it really quality flight time? Are you flying cross country at all? Do you ever get ANY kind of actual? Do you fly any more than 3 routes? Pay doesn't look too great for you guys either. If the guy asking the question is like most pilots, he wants to go into a career at the regionals and the majors and the quickest way to go would be right to SkyWest. 1000 hours of PIC... great, but that takes a year AND who knows what this industry is going to do in the future. Not many airlines hire street captains.

It all comes down to your seniority number. The sooner you're on... the better!


PS - Jim, sorry to here such a nice guy was furloughed. Fly Navy? The Navy is obsolete.

Quality of lfight time - 121 time and turbine

Cross Country - all except the training flights

Actual - not as much as some, but I flew just 938 hours in tha last 12 months with 78 of it actual. Not quite the 10% average but close. And it was all hand flown not watching the autopilot.

1000 PIC - try getting hired at Southwest, Fedex, UPS or JetBlue without it. Although not required at other majors, it makes you a lot more competative.

Quickest way to a major - get hired at Scenic at 600 hours, upgrade to Captain at 1500 hours 1 year later, have a 1000 turbine PIC by the end of your second year, go to a regional for some jet time. In 4 years you will have 3500+ hours total with 2900+ of it multi turbine 121 and 1000+ of it 121 turbine PIC. You'll have every competative block checked - 121, turbine, jet and PIC.

Seniority number - if your goal is to spend your career at a rgional, than by all means get hired at that regional as soon as possible. If your goal is a major, than you need to work to be competative to be hired at that major as soon as possible (that is the seniority number to worry about). I know all about seniority numbers - I have one at a d@mn good airline - at 2 d@mn good airlines actually.

Pay - when you consider that Scenic pays you for your ground time too, we are probably close to the highest paid 19 seat regional pilots in the industry. There is another Scenic thread on flightinfo were I discussed the pay.

Tour pilot (from another of your posts) - Not hardly. Scheduled 121 just like any other regional.

Navy obsolete - Once again you do not know what you are talking about. Power projection from the sea is the mission and the Navy/Marine Corps do it best. No worries about basing, overflights or diplomatic clearances.

I'm glad you think I'm a nice guy, but as other have said - you are insulting as well as ignorant. You are now talking about two areas (airlines and military) of which you know nothing about (according to your profile and from the contents of your posts). From another post elsewhere on flightinfo I believe you were recently hired at Sky West. A little advise - when you start there, keep your mouth shut. Just listen and learn. I don't think you try and piss poeple off, but you do a good job of it.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Thanks for the info.

I injured my lower back in training. I posted in depth about it right after I got back and was trying to settle up with the army.

 

[Jim]

Do most people leave Scenic for regionals or do they go on to the few majors that are hiring?And another good one would be scenic, skywest,or ameriflight.

In the two years prior to 9/11/2001 during the last big major hiring boom:
5 to Hawaiian
1 to United
4 to Champion
1 to Allegiant

Since 911/2001:
2 to Alligaint
3 to AWA
1 to Pace

Prior to my first stint at Scenic there were also a couple that went to Delta, US Airways and Southwest. This is what I can remeber off the top of my head about Scenic pilots I personally know. There have been others, however the vast majority will go on to a regional and get some jet time. Many have gone on to fractionals and corporate flying also.

 

[Jim]

Scenic Pay

Since it keeps getting brought up, here is what I posted in another thread on Scenic's pay. The other thread can be found at: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=54897&page=2&pp=15&highlight=scenic. There has actually been another improvement in pay in that we are now getting paid extra if our duty day goes over 12 hours. Further, although the official policy is 1.5x for flying on days off, we usually get 2x pay. (plus it is not mandatory, you can refuse to be scheduled over 12 hours and refuse to fly on your days off.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ILStoMinimums
The only thing about Scenic, I'm not sure about that $13.50 an hour no matter how low time you are. That's brutal.

That figure is actually misleading. FOs get $13.50/hour per flight hour. Pilots also get paid 1/2 their hourly rate for all ground time ($6.75 for FOs). Most regional pilots get paid only for flight time. Historically, about 1/2 of a Scenic pilot's pay comes from ground time (more in the winter, less in the summer - it averages out to a little over 50% for a year). So the equivalent hourly rate for comparison to other 19 seat turboprop 121 airlines is $20.25/hr. If you go to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/ , you will find that it is a competative payrate.

Same for the Captains. I believe a 1st year Captain makes about $22.60 to $23.00/hr (not sure exactly). the equivalent including ground time is $33.90 to $34.50/hr. That's a competative 19 seat turbo-prop Captain salary.

Further, Scenic Captains average about 130 hours/month pay in the slow months and up to 200 hours/month June to September. Last year, I was with Scenic for 6 months (June - December) during that time I averaged 156 hours pay per month. At my new 3rd year pay rate of $25.44, I would have earned $23,812 in 6 months or $47,624 for the year (in reality, the 3rd year rate was $23.55/hour than and I earned $22,042 for the 6 months or $44,084 for the year). An FO at 1st year pay of $13.50/hr would have earned $12,636 in that 6 months or $25,272 for the year. Since we have fewer Captains than FOs, the FO would realistically fly less but he would have made at least $20,000 to $22,000 for the year. Further, if the FO came to Scenic at anywhere above 1100 total time, he would have upgraded somewhere in the 6 to 9 month timeframe.

 

[SSDD]

I think that Scenic is a good job, however, with all due respect to the previous posters, if you actually have a choice of Skywest or Scenic, then the advantage would be to Skywest. The fact is that the majors are not hiring a whole lot, so you're looking to spend some time at the regional level.

I'm by no means an expert, but in talking to people, there seems to be over 100 former Scenic pilots at Skywest. So it seems like going directly to Skywest, or any other good regional would be a step in the right direction.