Scabs?

[pilotyip]

With all the "Why did EAL go down?" talk and talk of SCABS, an interesting question comes to mind. Back in the late 50's or early 60's, the PFE's at EAL were represented by the Teamsters. The PFE's went on strike, ALPA told EAL you don't need PFE's any more, pilots can do the FE stuff on turbin equip. So EAL hired pilots in the ALPA union to replace the striking Teamsters. Were these pilots strike breakers? My source of info is a bunch of the former EAL PFE's who maned the panel and flew with me on the Electra at TIA in the late 70's. They did not think much of ALPA, who represented the pilots at TIA.

 

[mar]

Interesting question

The term 'scab' gets thrown around a lot--like Republicans calling Democrats 'communists' or Democrats calling Republicans 'fascists'. After a while we start to forget what the term reallly means.

To me, a scab is someone that crosses an active picket line to replace that striking worker's job.

In the case you cite, it's not like other PFEs were stepping on the backs of the striking PFEs. The company hired pilots to be engineers (the training would take weeks so it's not like they could just jump right into an airplane that was waiting for a PFE)--a very shrewd move on the part of the company.

Scabs? Maybe not in the strictest sense of the word. But what a crappy thing to do to members of another organized labor group.

I mean, this is what the concept of solidarity is all about. Sympathy walk outs, etc. Labor is all in this together and we should stick together--even different unions.

 

[FoxHunter]

The PFEs at EAL were represented by FEIA, not IBT. The PFEs that crossed the picket line were put on the pilot seniority list, trained as pilots, and most eventually retired as Captains. The guys that honored the line went to Seaboard, Capitol, ONA, Saturn, TIA and a number of other foreign airlines.

I flew for as a DC8 F/O(1974) for a company called Aerovias Quisqueyana. The three Captains were retired EAL. The two F/Es were both ex Eastern, one had crossed and retired from EAL as a pilot, the other honored the line and bounced from nonsked to nonsked. The one EAL Captain had been the MEC Chairman at the tie of the FEIA strike. Interesting.

 

[publisher]

misnomer

the greatest misnomer of all, that labor is organized or together.

 

[mar]

Self-fulfilling prophecies

Publisher--First of all, a misnomer is a term that doesn't quite fit, like your moniker. I think you meant to say 'misconception'.

Second: Labor is indeed organized and together. You cannot deny the lobbying power of any union on capital hill.

To be perfectly honest I don't consider your contribution to the industry to be entirely productive.

A fraction of the working pilots out there make an embarrasing amount of money for not much work. The rest of us work long hours for not much pay flying in marginal conditions in marginal aircraft.

Personally I'm growing quite tired of external opportunists who pit one pilot against the other telling him that there is no solidarity in the airline industry therefore it's everyman for himself.

There is solidarity. We can protect our interests--if only we could protect young impressionable new pilots who don't have much experience in the industry from the cancer of thinking that they're all alone.

Unfortunately, those predisposed to the Lone Eagle syndrome will buy into your rhetoric and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[publisher]

power

No I do not deny the power. In fact, that is probably what is wrong. Labor at that level is nothing more than the same machine that it is negotiating against.

It is at the lower level that it fails for it is not what it is cracked up to be.

We are in agreement, the high end is too high and too many on the low end are underpaid.

Lastly, I report it as I see it, not as I would like it to be.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Publisher:

As I see it, you would prefer a union-free profession where each pilot negotiated his own wages and benefits and work rules.

A profession where each pilot it subject to the whim of a manager ordering him to fly an unsafe airplane into unsafe conditions (and where a Fed is waiting to violate him when he arrives.)

A profession where politicians can arbitrarily legislate cameras in your workplace without any political opposition.

A profession where a manager can wake up one day and say: "Know what? Those pilots don't work hard enough, I'm going to make mine come in today and work behind the ticket counter."

Let's hope we never work together.

 

[mar]

Um, RIGHT!!

Publisher you wrote: "No I do not deny the power. In fact, that is probably what is wrong. Labor at that level is nothing more than the same machine that it is negotiating against."

Um, RIGHT!! That's the point. And that's not what's wrong.

You see, it takes powerful 'collective bargaining' to do battle against the almighty corporation whose only loyalty is to its stockholders.

 

[publisher]

power

And when you put it together, what you get is exactly the type thing that you claim is bad.

I once had the negotiator from a large union tell me in the john that if we fired this guy who was part of their negotiating team, they would not fight it. He was a big pain in their butt as he was in mine.

You see at my age and experience level, you know that the rhetoric is just that, rhetoric.

 

[mar]

You can either talk intelligently or...

You can either talk intelligently or talk rhetorically.

And your rhetoric is numbing my brain because I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

Exactly what did I claim is "bad"?

On second thought: Forget it.

You're right.

Thinly veiled entrepreneurism of any form = Good.

Organized labor (inconveniently standing in the way of thinly veiled entrepreneurism) of any form = Bad.

Thanks for playing.

 

[LR25]

One pilot group against another.

First of all, When I would hear a mainline pilot (USAir) talk about WOed pilots doing there flying, A PDT pilot bitching about mainliners, I really didnt see any outside influences, it was the pilots themselves. I have always asked myself, where does the animosity come from.

When I would deadhead on a mianline jumpseat, catching very camofloughed snide BS remarks, where was the outside influence?

My point is, Managment, unions, pilots, money and equipment bring on the turmoil, if you want to consider those outside influences, be my guest, but it all stems from within the pilot groups.

I dont pretend to have vast knowledge of all the issues, but I can speak for what I have seen myself.

Yes, we are all for saving the industry, we can run into another pilot from other airlines in the hotel restuarant and have a nice conversation and see eye to eye, but all that changes when we put our uniforms on and hang our ID badges.

Solidarity, I have lots of questions to the truth of that matter.