Saving Money by Not Using Enough Prist?

[erj-145mech]

Another Flight Options Beechjet Dual Flameout[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
A Flight Options Beechjet 400A (N691TA) yesterday afternoon experienced a dual-engine flameout en route from Indianapolis International Airport to Marco Island Airport, Fla., while on a positioning leg. The crew declared an emergency and landed safely at Jacksonville International Airport. This marks the second such Beechjet incident at the Cleveland-based fractional provider. On July 12, 2004, a Flight Options Beechjet 400A (N455CW) experienced a dual flameout over the Gulf of Mexico with seven passengers aboard. The crew of N455CW was able to restart the right engine and safely divert to Sarasota, Fla. The NTSB said in January that N455CW had a lower-than-normal amount of anti-icing additive in its tanks. Beechjet 400As are not equipped with fuel heaters. NTSB investigator Jim Hookey, who also investigated the July 12, 2004 dual flameout, was unavailable at press time to comment on yesterday's incident. Flight Options has not yet responded to requests for comment.[/FONT]

 

[learflyer]

So, what's the first thing you would do with a dual engine flame out, junior? Those guys (probably my friends) did a great job to get that thing on the ground. Don't post absurd crap like that!!

 

[semperfido]

one is an incident, two a possible pattern. i thought it was an interesting read. friends or not

 

[CutEmUp]

Obviously they forgot to check the amount of prist in thier fuel.(sarcasm)

Maybe it was the fueler that forgot to put in the attitive.

 

[jaxpilot]

yeah my FBO got called out to tow em to the maintenance place. Happened about 30 minutes before I showed up to work.

 

[erj-145mech]

So, what's the first thing you would do with a dual engine flame out, junior? Those guys (probably my friends) did a great job to get that thing on the ground. Don't post absurd crap like that!!

Hey crap for brains, exactly where did I say anything derogatory about the crew or their performance? I think that the crew did an exemplary job in this situation.

Its not absurd crap, its a factual report. If you don't like it, you have my permission not to read it. If it hit a nerve, then you need to either 1) fix an obvious problem in your company, 2) get some professional therapy, or 3) step away from the computer, and enjoy an adult beverage. I'd hate to be the one to raise your blood pressure causing you to lose your medical.

As far a failing to check on the amount of prist in the fuel, isn't it still the pilots responsibility to ensure that the aircraft is serviced properly? If not, who is this responsibility delegated to?

 

[HS125]

As far a failing to check on the amount of prist in the fuel, isn't it still the pilots responsibility to ensure that the aircraft is serviced properly? If not, who is this responsibility delegated to?

There is no way for the pilot to check the amount of prist in the fuel. Prist is either 1) pre-mixed in the fuel, 2) added to the fuel at the fuel truck during pumping, or 3) sprayed from a aerosol can into the fuel stream at the fuel nozzel.

1 & 2 are the standard and the pilot has no control over the delivery of the amount of prist and I doubt that most pilots would know how to determine that prist is being added to the fuel in the case of #2 above.

When the pilot orders fuel the pilot normally indicates that prist is either needed or not and after that it is usally left to the line personnel to make sure that prist is added to the fuel.

 

[semperfido]

however, a pilot could order with prist and then at another stop order without which would dilute the mixture over time. so it seems that the fuel loads will most probably be investigated.

 

[jaxpilot]

FLOPS always orders Prist on their Beechjets when we handle them. Now I have had some Citations and tip-tanked Lears say no Prist, and I always reconfirm it and they say "theres enough in there already." whatever...

 

[Swamp Fox]

I doubt that most pilots would know how to determine that prist is being added to the fuel in the case of #2 above.

When the pilot orders fuel the pilot normally indicates that prist is either needed or not and after that it is usally left to the line personnel to make sure that prist is added to the fuel.

There is usually a clearly marked ON/OFF valve on the truck for the additive. It is most definitely the pilot's responsibility to ensure that the fueler selects the valve to ON if additive has been requested. Beyond that, obviously, there is no way to know that the system is working properly. I had a crewmate who had been sent to supervise refueling. He stood around jawing with the fueler while they both stared right at the valve in the OFF position.

I have never understood pilots who don't supervise refueling. How else can you assure the safety and accuracy of the operation? If you just place the order with the CSR, it is easy for communication failures, not to mention plain incompetency, to occur before the fuel gets into the plane. On two occassions, I have even had line service attempt to fuel my plane when the order was for another! I would sure hate to pay a bill for fuel that went into somebody else's plane!