Sarin Gas found in Iraq

[HueyPilot]

An artillery round that had been rigged as a road-side bomb was found to have contained Sarin, and the artillery shell was a type used by Hussein's army that he declared were all destroyed. Two army ordinance personnel were treated for minor exposure to nerve agent.

Here's the story:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.main/index.html

 

[HueyPilot]

Addendum

Apparently this round was an older-style Soviet type round that is designed to explode in an air-burst, and mixe the chemicals together to form Sarin. The chemicals were kept seperate to make handling safer. The improvised nature of the explosives designed to set the round off on the side of the road had little effect in mixing the chemicals, so very little actual Sarin was released, but it still exposed a few individuals. Apparently the persons who set the bomb off either A) didn't know it was a chem warhead, or B) didn't know how to actually set the thing off properly.

Saddam Hussein had a large stockpile of these types of older technology Soviet rounds. He had declared that all of them were destroyed. They are still trying to find out where this round came from, and if there are any more. It's quite possible the rounds were taken and buried (as they were done here in the US in the 1970s, until the DoD required the sites to actually be cleaned up and the rounds destroyed), or stored in some random warehouse...who knows?

 

[EagleRJ]

Come on, HueyPilot-

There were never any WMDs in Iraq, and Bush's war is illegal and unjust! ;-)

 

[HueyPilot]

Well,

You know, Bush lied about WMDs, and directed the CIA to make up the WMD threat...despite the fact that intel had been briefing us in the military of Saddam's secret WMD threat even when I was an Army helo pilot in 1996...

 

[Timebuilder]

That's right.

And Bill Clinton was secretly involved, and was seen flying from Arkansas to Texas in a black helicopter so that this deception of WMD's could be perpetrated on the American people so that we could steal all of the Iraqi oil.

It should all be just about gone by now, shouldn't it?

 

[Jmmccutc]

...deception of WMD's could be perpetrated on the American people so that we could steal all of the Iraqi oil...

well if we have all the oil, why did i pay $2.05 yesterday?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

WAIT!

You got it all wrong! Wasn't Rumsfield JUST OVER THERE? He planted it! It is so obvious. And that Mustard gas the the military found a few weeks ago wasn't mustard GAS, it was just mustard! It was used on hot dogs for school kids.
I still say Bush and Rumsfield need to resign. And the Pope, him too. And all student body presidents from all the high schools in Texas. I am sure they were in on it too.

 

[FN FAL]

And Bill Clinton was secretly involved, and was seen flying from Arkansas to Texas in a black helicopter

Clinton knows how to fly a helicopter or he was riding in one?

 

[Dizel8]

One shell with Sarin gas and we have justification for war. Wow!
It was known, that Saddam had been in possesion of gas, used it on the kurds, so finding one shell or a hundred for that matter, still does not make Iraq an imminent threat to the US.

Remember the talk about ability to strike the US within mere hours, a claim made by the british. Hmm, whatever came of those or where they planning on firing an artillery round from Iraq to Washington with that fancy canon of theirs.

I hear several countries have large quantities of Hydrogen Peroxide, better attack now, it can be used as rocket fuel.

 

[Timebuilder]

One shell with Sarin gas and we have justification for war. Wow!

We never need one shell, nor a MILLION shells, to justify going in. We had that already when Sadaam broke the peace agreement.

Remember the talk about ability to strike the US within mere hours, a claim made by the british. Hmm, whatever came of those or where they planning on firing an artillery round from Iraq to Washington with that fancy canon of theirs.

All they woould need to do that woould be an ICBM purchased fro North Korea or some former soviet generals.

Or, an airplane obtianed in Boston.

Remember how easy that was?

I hear several countries have large quantities of Hydrogen Peroxide, better attack now, it can be used as rocket fuel.

Or hair color for Hillary. Attack now!!!

 

[HueyPilot]

Oh please

The problem isn't with Hussein shelling DC from Iraq with a 155MM artillery shell. The problem was in Hussein allowing that stuff to go to terror organizations.

Dispute it if you like, but Hussein allowed Zarhqari and al Qaeda to train in Iraq...he may not have been an overt supporter, but he allowed it. Also, Hussein funded various Palestinian terror organizations such as Hamas and the Hezbollah. One of the conduits for this money was through Zarhqari.

Hussein wasn't a fervent Islamist. But he did support the Islamists financially, if not for religious cause, for the purpose of appearing to be religious, thus helping cement his power base.

In foreign policy reviews we've done, there are essentially four major (read major, because there are plenty of minor problems) problems in the middle east/islamic heartland:

Taliban (allowing al Qaeda training and funding), which we took care of.

Hussein (mad man who funds terror to appeal to his people), which we are in the process of taking care of.

Palestine (obvious).

Iran (Radical theocracy, which is enduring an internal struggle between moderates and hardliners), we're currently in a wait-and-see posture with them.

I figured a long time ago (before the war started) that once we found WMD, the folks who were crying "there are no WMD" or "Bush lied" would simply switch gears and say "it's only a little" or "no REAL threat existed with just a bunch of silly, unaccountable, uncontrolled Sarin".

 

[enigma]

I just surfed over to the ABC, CBS, NBC news websites and the Sarin find isn't headlined there, imagine that.

But it really doesn't matter, Iraq had the WMD at one time, and never proved that they properly disposed of it. Therefore, we had to deal with it as if it were still existant.

enigma

 

[Dizel8]

"that once we found WMD."

Hate to burst your bubble, but one single shell is hardly what were being claimed he possesed.

Listen, I think we did the right thing, but the justification was at the time, that Iraq was filled with WMD. In the end, they made it sound like with every single footstep, you would bang your toe on WMD. This clearly was not the case.

"But it really doesn't matter, Iraq had the WMD at one time, and never proved that they properly disposed of it. Therefore, we had to deal with it as if it were still existant."

"Kay, who led a U.S. team hunting for weapons, said it appears that the shell was one of tens of thousands produced for the Iran-Iraq war, which Saddam was supposed to destroy or turn over to the United Nations. In many cases, he said, Iraq did comply.

"It is hard to know if this is one that just was overlooked — and there were always some that were overlooked, we knew that — or if this was one that came from a hidden stockpile," Kay said. "I rather doubt that because it appears the insurgents didn't even know they had a chemical round."

Bush has been backing off something fierce, from the WMD justification. Now it is about Sadam being a evil man (true) and the support he have given terrorism (also true), but that is not what he was incesssantly pointing out before the invasion.

CIA has admitted, that they were overzealous with their claims and that the Iraq scientist, from whom they received some intel, are simply not reliable or were downright fabricating stories.

If you are concerned about how he assisted AQ and OBL, then you should be really concerned about what the Saudis did, but let us just glaze that over.

"All they woould need to do that woould be an ICBM purchased from North Korea or some former soviet generals." Well, then NK is an equally credible threat, if not higher on the list. What are we waiting for, lets invade yet another country, based on what they might be capable of. China has ICBMs and not overly friendly to the US, Iran is working on WMD, both Pakistan and India has WMD. Where does it end? Lets preemptively strike any and all countries, for fear of what they might one day be capable of.

 

[surplus1]

It was never really a question of "if" we would find WMD in Iraq, it was only a question of when.

When public policy is based on the concept that "the end justifies the means", we will always find a "means". Whatever is necessary to achieve the desired "end" will be "found" or invented when the need arises.

Right now there is a much greater need to legitimize the invasion of Iraq than there was on the day it began. It should not come as a surprise that justifications will begin to surface. What form they will take is dependent on the winds of politics.

 

[MW44]

I find it interesting that the very monday after Bush's approval rating is at his all time low and he is trailing Kerry in the polls a single shell is found near the airport containing a WMD. I'm sure they'll drag Bin Laden out in chains during the republican convention.

 

[EagleRJ]

MW44

You're right, the CIA gave that chemical shell to a terrorist in Iraq and asked him to attack our troops with it. Anything for a poll number! Who do you think President Bush is, Bill Clinton?

From a lefty news service:

[Two former weapons inspectors — Hans Blix and David Kay — said the shell was likely a stray weapon that had been scavenged by militants and did not signify that Iraq had large stockpiles of such weapons.]

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read! Of course the shell was scavenged, but you don't start up a complex and expensive WMD program just to produce one shell! Blix and Kay can't possibly know if the shell was a leftover from Iran/Iraq War stock that escaped destruction by Saddam, or if it was recently manufactured.

It's just the latest WMD find in Iraq that is being largely ignored by the media. The media seems to be waiting to find a huge hidden warehouse, with a sign over the door that says, 'Saddam's Secret WMD Stockpile- Infidels Stay Out!'. It's not going to happen like that. We've been finding WMD's every week over there, but few are taking notice.

 

[Dizel8]

"We've been finding WMD's every week over there, but few are taking notice."

Source please?

 

[wingnutt]

Right now there is a much greater need to legitimize the invasion of Iraq than there was on the day it began. It should not come as a surprise that justifications will begin to surface. What form they will take is dependent on the winds of politics.

hold up a sec...are you saying that now that theres "public outrage" over going into iraq, anything found from here until the end is suspect as being fabricated...or am i reading that wrong???

 

[SupraZachAir]

Seems simple to me. Everyone said he had them. UN, Clinton, France, certain presidential candidates, etc...

So where did they (WMD's) go? If he destroyed them, all he needed to do was say, "Looky here: destroyed!" Thats it. That not being the case we have 3 options:
1) He still has them.
2) He conveniently misplaced them into neighboring countries.
3) He never had them, and the whole world was wrong in saying he did.

But why look at the situation logically when we can just blame Bush.

 

[AeroBoy]

The jury is still out...even Rummy says the tests are not final. Read the following excerpts from the AP story:

In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cautioned that the sarin results were from a field test, which can be imperfect and more analysis needed to be done.

"We have to be careful," he told an audience in Washington Monday afternoon. Rumsfeld said it many take some time to determine precisely what the chemical was, what its presence means in terms of risks to U.S. forces and other implications.

The team has run into a number of dead ends. In January, for example, field tests on discovered mortar shells near Qurnah in southern Iraq indicated a blister agent was in the shells. But follow-up tests indicated that the munitions did not contain the agents, though U.S. officials said Saddam had such agents in the early to mid-1990s.

Officials say there are chemicals associated with certain munitions, such as phosphorous, that can produce false positives. Some field tests are designed to favor a positive reading, erring on the side of caution to protect soldiers.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Re: WAIT!

You got it all wrong! Wasn't Rumsfield JUST OVER THERE? He planted it! It is so obvious.

Don't be silly. It wasn't planted. It was brought in from Afghanistan (which Bush decided to forget in favor of his Iraq expedition) by Al Kaida (which now have free reign in Iraq since we entered the picture.)

Well, we now have all the views. Just save the thread and see which one turns out to be true.

 

[ThomasR]

Sarin Gas

Come on, HueyPilot-

There were never any WMDs in Iraq, and Bush's war is illegal and unjust! ;-)

EagleRJ,
Maybe, but they haven't looked in Syria yet. Borders have always been open from the start.

 

[EagleRJ]

Re: Sarin Gas

EagleRJ,
Maybe, but they haven't looked in Syria yet. Borders have always been open from the start.

Maybe you didn't notice the satirical tone to my post!

I'm mocking the Dumbacrats who now say there probably never were any WMDs in Iraq, when the same people were standing with the Republicans and the UN ten years ago demanding that Saddam get rid of them. We have pictures and inventories of numerous WMD projects Saddam was working on, including a nuclear program. He said before he was removed from power that he destroyed all of it.

There's two possibilities here: One is that he actually did destroy all his stockpiles and research, not wanting to invoke the wrath of the UN.
The other is that knowing he couldn't face us militarily, he chose to try to embarrass us in front of the world by hiding his WMDs or moving them to friendly countries. We've been finding bits and pieces ever since we went in, but no large stockpiles yet. That hasn't seemed to stop the left from piling on and suggesting that this war was unjustified and based on false intelligence.

 

[ThomasR]

Sarin Gas

Maybe you didn't notice the satirical tone to my post!........

EagleRJ,
Tone didn't matter. Need opposition always. Without the light background you can't see the dark words.

All your Iraq are belong to US

http://www.muchosucko.com/flash-ayiabtu.html

 

[transienttorque]

I hear several countries have large quantities of Hydrogen Peroxide, better attack now, it can be used as rocket fuel.

Are the women in those countries natural blondes?

 

[Dizel8]

"We've been finding bits and pieces ever since we went in."

I ask again, sources please!

 

[EagleRJ]

-This 155MM sarin gas shell

-The bottles of ricin found in the laboratory

-The botulinum toxin found in a warehouse

-The mustard gas found last week

-The mustard gas shells found in an arms cache

-The gas centrifuge buried in the scientist's back yard

-The large quantity of castor beans mislabled as something else

-The mobile trailers with the hidden plumbing and fermenters

-The high-precision "mortar tubes"

-The numerous mortar shells found filled with liquid (that was decomposed and tested negative for chemical agents)

-The MRBM parts and research

-The drones and MiG-21s modified as drones, able to dispense materials along their route

-The thousands of pages of research data

-The large quantities of uranium, despite the lack of any nuclear power program

-The "pharmeceutical plants" that had been sterilized floor to ceiling

-The drums of nerve agent found at the chemical factory

-The intercepted radio transmissions ordering collection of all WMD materials

-The fact that all Iraqi soldiers had chem-warfare gear with them. Were they expecting us to use gas?

-The fact that we know Saddam DID have all this stuff. So what happened to it?