SAPA "Negotiations" Update

[Nevets]

Really? Their top Captains took around a 40% cut and the bottom 2/3 will be eventually dumped.


Ya, thank god they had ALPA?

The judge denied the management's first attempt. So, yes, it would have been worse. Not to mention that the company would've had just imposed something worse than what they proposed to the judge since they wouldn't have needed a judge's permission if they were non-union.

What is it you guys don't understand about that? Or are you just blinded by hatred?

 

[nerjdriver]

I never said that this mess at XJT was better. What I said is that our 401k matching is better and that we have the same performance plus bonus (just that our performance sucks). Check your contract, section 25, page 154. As for overall compensation, you have to calculate it as total compensation divided by total block hours flown for a true comparison.

I have it Nevets. Ever hear of profit sharing? Additionally im aware, after being at this for a while, how to calculate compensation. SKYW pilots can also put their match into a ROTH (According to my accountant who is a skyw pilot), not just a 401k, again, big bonus there. Ill take the 11% match rumored being offered over there over our match and measly 2%. In fact, Ill take their health insurance with that 11%. Ill also take being a reserve CA and being allowed to pick up trips to credit much higher than 75 hours. You see they do have a better deal than us, we're just so brainwashed some of us believe we are the "master race". FYI a reserve CA over there can hit 100K fairly easily if theyre willing to work, not so here. Ill take their trip and duty rig too, unlike our big bad 2hr DPM. Theres plenty we have that's good, but at the end of the day they make more. We should be demanding SKYW plus $1, not the other way around. That little stunt pulled about getting a 70 seat rate so we could bid on flying? What a joke, guess where all the flying went?

 

[Nevets]

I have it Nevets. Ever hear of profit sharing? Additionally im aware, after being at this for a while, how to calculate compensation. SKYW pilots can also put their match into a ROTH (According to my accountant who is a skyw pilot), not just a 401k, again, big bonus there. Ill take the 11% match rumored being offered over there over our match and measly 2%. In fact, Ill take their health insurance with that 11%. Ill also take being a reserve CA and being allowed to pick up trips to credit much higher than 75 hours. You see they do have a better deal than us, we're just so brainwashed some of us believe we are the "master race". FYI a reserve CA over there can hit 100K fairly easily if theyre willing to work, not so here. Ill take their trip and duty rig too, unlike our big bad 2hr DPM. Theres plenty we have that's good, but at the end of the day they make more. We should be demanding SKYW plus $1, not the other way around. That little stunt pulled about getting a 70 seat rate so we could bid on flying? What a joke, guess where all the flying went?

Yes, we have a profit sharing plan as well that is exactly like Skywest's (except that we don't make a profit).

Are you also aware that we've been able to put our money in a Roth 401k ever since their inception, not just the regular 401k but in addition to it.

Are you also aware that we also get a higher match than Skywest and that in addition to the higher match we also get another contribution as well, up to 12% for the most senior. And that is not a rumor. It's a fact!

And are you aware that our reserves can also pick up during red flag and can can pick up during the APW?

And are you aware that we have a contractual cap of 25% on our health insurance premiums? Skywest doesn't have that and they are also not pushing us into consumer driven health plans either.

As for their duty rigs (they don't have a trip rig), I've been calculating the difference it would have made to me since they bought us and so far it would only have been a few hours total.

I've seen the numbers and I've heard it from JA himself. When counting total compensation, wages, 401k matching, retirement contributions, health benefits (all of which are better than Skywest), and productivity (or lack there of), ours is higher. And if you actually calculate that total compensation by block hours flown, you will have a true comparison of compensation and work rules.

And lastly, I do agree that the arbitrators decision on the large RJ rates are a joke. And I would happily take one dollar more than Skywest if we kept our current work rules, not theirs.

 

[Flyer1015]

The judge denied the management's first attempt. So, yes, it would have been worse. Not to mention that the company would've had just imposed something worse than what they proposed to the judge since they wouldn't have needed a judge's permission if they were non-union.

What is it you guys don't understand about that? Or are you just blinded by hatred?

The big non-union regional is SkyWest and they are the highest paying regional airline today for pilots.

 

[nerjdriver]

Yes, we have a profit sharing plan as well that is exactly like Skywest's (except that we don't make a profit).

Are you also aware that we've been able to put our money in a Roth 401k ever since their inception, not just the regular 401k but in addition to it.

Are you also aware that we also get a higher match than Skywest and that in addition to the higher match we also get another contribution as well, up to 12% for the most senior. And that is not a rumor. It's a fact!

And are you aware that our reserves can also pick up during red flag and can can pick up during the APW?

And are you aware that we have a contractual cap of 25% on our health insurance premiums? Skywest doesn't have that and they are also not pushing us into consumer driven health plans either.

As for their duty rigs (they don't have a trip rig), I've been calculating the difference it would have made to me since they bought us and so far it would only have been a few hours total.

I've seen the numbers and I've heard it from JA himself. When counting total compensation, wages, 401k matching, retirement contributions, health benefits (all of which are better than Skywest), and productivity (or lack there of), ours is higher. And if you actually calculate that total compensation by block hours flown, you will have a true comparison of compensation and work rules.

And lastly, I do agree that the arbitrators decision on the large RJ rates are a joke. And I would happily take one dollar more than Skywest if we kept our current work rules, not theirs.

WOW just wow. Do you do the stip show at the MEC office Nevets? Keep telling yourself all these little things.

 

[Nevets]

The big non-union regional is SkyWest and they are the highest paying regional airline today for pilots.

Actually, that is not true. Heard it from JA's mouth himself. And I've seen the actual numbers.

WOW just wow. Do you do the stip show at the MEC office Nevets? Keep telling yourself all these little things.

What did I say that wasn't true? Can you point exactly where I was wrong? I gave you section and page number of our contract that showed where you were wrong about our 401k.

 

[IBNAV8R]

And if you actually calculate that total compensation by block hours flown, you will have a true comparison of compensation and work rules.

I'm getting deja vu. Last time NEVETS made this claim, I got nothing back but crickets. You got some pretty big stones trying to bring it up again while claiming SkyWest pilots are "coat-tailing."

 

[IBNAV8R]

$133/block hour

 

[Fishpaw]

The problem with this debate is how everyone chooses to compare average compensation.

Nevet's says JA told the XJT Mec we have a higher average compensation per pilot and would have to take large cuts if they purchased us (something I also was told by another Union rep that was in the meeting). So we have to assume then that JA is telling the truth about this average.

Nerjdriver's experience as a reserve CA at XJT is not matching up with what he hears from his SKW buddies so he feels the average compensation is much better at SKW. This is a different way to look at average compensation because he is only looking at if he were a reserve CA at SKW, not a lineholder.

Either way you look at it (individual basis, or pilot group as a whole) hopefully we can all work together to get the compensation we deserve.

Fwiw, my compensation in 2012 was about $200/blk hr when accounting for pay, per diem, perf bonus, 401k match (8yr CA, XJT).

 

[Nevets]

I'm getting deja vu. Last time NEVETS made this claim, I got nothing back but crickets. You got some pretty big stones trying to bring it up again while claiming SkyWest pilots are "coat-tailing."

I don't recall that. I must have missed your reply. But Skywest pilots are coat tailing. Your welcome for known crewmember.

The problem with this debate is how everyone chooses to compare average compensation.

Nevet's says JA told the XJT Mec we have a higher average compensation per pilot and would have to take large cuts if they purchased us (something I also was told by another Union rep that was in the meeting). So we have to assume then that JA is telling the truth about this average.

Nerjdriver's experience as a reserve CA at XJT is not matching up with what he hears from his SKW buddies so he feels the average compensation is much better at SKW. This is a different way to look at average compensation because he is only looking at if he were a reserve CA at SKW, not a lineholder.

Either way you look at it (individual basis, or pilot group as a whole) hopefully we can all work together to get the compensation we deserve.

Fwiw, my compensation in 2012 was about $200/blk hr when accounting for pay, per diem, perf bonus, 401k match (8yr CA, XJT).

He said that we would require a 16% concession to bring us to parity with the Skywest average (entire pilot group) total compensation. He even broke it down into 4 specific categories (4% for each) they were looking at: pay rates, B fund, PBS, and other work rules yet to be determined (my guess was health benefits). ASA only needed 4% to at parity with Skywest but they were getting that with the eventual PBS implementation. This would have had all three pilot groups having the same average total compensation. He had a plan (still does) of putting in 3 separate bids for any and all RFPs. He said all this.

By the way, don't forget your health benefits in your total compensation. Whatever premiums you pay, that is only 25% of the total. The company pays for the other 75% on our behalf as part of our compensation.

 

[badog]

Even though I relish busting skw pilots and dikspatcher balls, I realize like some normal people that if we keep fighting amongst ourselves, then management can divide and conquer. As much as it pains me to say this, we need to put this petty infighting behind us and force inc to compensate us according to profit margins, one company one voice. Let the naysayers spout off how we will never be one list, just as sgu desires. Skip the, "my fee for departure airline is better than yours", and lets show inc we are not just dumb pilots but savy business people. Oh yeah I forgot who I was talking with !

 

[Gutenberg]

Skywest's financials are public. You want 150 an hour then the company will be out of business as soon as they blow through their cash reserves. This isn't the government, we have to make money and we have relatively fixed revenue.

 

[badog]

Skywest's financials are public. You want 150 an hour then the company will be out of business as soon as they blow through their cash reserves. This isn't the government, we have to make money and we have relatively fixed revenue.

Case in point.
Uncle Jerry is rich because of your lame wage.
Poor silly souls.
He gives 10% of his $$ to the moron church.
How about a raise there inc ?

 

[fastback]

Sure I do. The company gave you a cup of kool aid and butchered your health insurance. Then you coat-tailed Asa's sacrifice and hard work on a contract and got Asa +$1, and another cup of kool aid.

At that same time, did ASA not get improved work rules / day rigs to match Skywest? Asking, honest question.

 

[sniper]

SkyWest Airlines Pilot Association

SAPA President Update

June 21, 2013

Negotiations Update

The negotiating committee met with management this week and everyone seems to want to know how it is going. Frankly, it is still very early in the process. This update will be a little short on details but I will be working with the committee in the coming weeks to get more data and information to the pilot group.

Our goal as the SAPA negotiating committee is to get the BEST overall package that we can. With 3200 pilots, we know the group will have 3200 different opinions on what is best. We are listening to your ideas as well as your wants and needs and will try to convince SkyWest to deliver. The SAPA Representative Board will guide and advise the negotiating committee through this process. Once we have a package that the Board finds acceptable, it will be sent to the pilot group. At that point, THE PILOTS will decide by a direct vote to approve or reject. We have no idea how long this will take, or even IF we will be able to negotiate an agreement that we can support.

It should come as no surprise that both SAPA and the Company have both spent a lot of time prepping for these negotiations. Much of the first meeting was spent talking about the current state of the industry, SkyWest profitability, the new E175 orders, and pilot contracts/pay at other carriers. In addition, we explored a few ideas that would provide mutual benefits to SkyWest and our pilots. We agreed to meet again in a few weeks after reviewing some of the ideas presented.

First, the good news is that SkyWest, Inc. IS making money. The recent orders for E175s show that SkyWest INC is willing to invest in this market and has a positive long term outlook. Publically filed financial statements show that SkyWest Airlines is doing well, while ExpressJet still has a lot of work to do to regain profitability.

The challenge is that the 50 seat market is slowly shrinking and being replaced by new 70-90 seat aircraft. The number of SkyWest CRJ 200s will be reduced as scope limitations kick in. SkyWest has approximately 100 aircraft coming off contract in the next 3 years. ExpressJet has about 150 coming off contract in the same time frame. SkyWest is competing for new flying against a number of other carriers with costs significantly lower than ours. It is important for everyone that we win our fair share of the replacement flying, and the hope is that SkyWest can win enough to continue to grow.

So what does that mean for us? It?s hard to tell. In the last year, SkyWest won 40-E175s for United, and a handful 700s and 900s for Alaska and US Air. Unfortunately, we missed out on some significant awards for Delta and American. The additional E175 orders/options are contingent on us winning more flying contracts. We know we won't win them all, but our expectation is that SkyWest will continue to compete and will secure new flying opportunities. Management contends that our pilot compensation is one of the biggest challenges to winning new contracts and believes that Mesa and Pinnacle contracts are the new standard.

In addition, the FAR 117 rest rule changes and the possible 'pilot shortage' from mainline hiring make it anyone's guess on how things will actually play out. Many have suggested that it may be unwise to lock ourselves into anything long term while facing so much uncertainty.

Well, that's the short update. We've been asked to provide more info to the pilot group so look for future updates from the committee with graphs, tables, and other information. We appreciate your support.

I thought SKW had no union
and ALPA drive failled 2 times

 

[wms]

At that same time, did ASA not get improved work rules / day rigs to match Skywest? Asking, honest question.

No. We negotiated the hard way for five years, suffered unethical mgmt tactics and a slow down to get what we got. Then we got coat tailed.

If I were at Skyw I would probably not want a union. But the past actions of our company show that without union protections we would have whatever the company wants shoved down our throats. Also, the fact that we are union forces inc to give you guys what we have plus a little to keep you happy.

Not to mention there is no sacrifice made by your group to get the improvements you've gotten, not even a monetary due.

 

[wms]

I thought SKW had no union
and ALPA drive failled 2 times

It failed because a failure to cast a vote counted as a "no" vote. The rules for that have changed to read only cast ballots count. That could have made the difference.

The company then showed its appreciation by changing health benefits for the worse.

 

[fastback]

No. We negotiated the hard way for five years, suffered unethical mgmt tactics and a slow down to get what we got. Then we got coat tailed.

If I were at Skyw I would probably not want a union. But the past actions of our company show that without union protections we would have whatever the company wants shoved down our throats. Also, the fact that we are union forces inc to give you guys what we have plus a little to keep you happy.

Not to mention there is no sacrifice made by your group to get the improvements you've gotten, not even a monetary due.

Are you telling me that around the same time that OO got the purported coattails raise, that then-EV did not receive work rule enhancements in line with those of Skywest airlines?

I'm not asking about the length of negotiations, or the honesty or competence of BL and his ilk, or your slowdown [I've heard from several old-timers that those work rules at Skywest were the result of a safety campaign well before my time, not some magnanimous managerial gesture].

Just asking whether your contract improving your work rules was signed around the same time that our pay raise was implemented.

 

[Flyer1015]

But but SkyWest is non-union! Where do they have leverage to pay 20 year CRJ-900 Captains at $112/hr?

 

[bmpilot2003]

It failed because a failure to cast a vote counted as a "no" vote. The rules for that have changed to read only cast ballots count. That could have made the difference.

The company then showed its appreciation by changing health benefits for the worse.

These two statements have zero correlation and are false. There was a 3 year period between voting down alpa and then getting rid of the HMO option. The drive failed because the majority here genuinely does not what a union no matter how the votes are counted.