SAPA "Negotiations" Update

[badog]

Even though I relish busting skw pilots and dikspatcher balls, I realize like some normal people that if we keep fighting amongst ourselves, then management can divide and conquer. As much as it pains me to say this, we need to put this petty infighting behind us and force inc to compensate us according to profit margins, one company one voice. Let the naysayers spout off how we will never be one list, just as sgu desires. Skip the, "my fee for departure airline is better than yours", and lets show inc we are not just dumb pilots but savy business people. Oh yeah I forgot who I was talking with !

 

[Gutenberg]

Skywest's financials are public. You want 150 an hour then the company will be out of business as soon as they blow through their cash reserves. This isn't the government, we have to make money and we have relatively fixed revenue.

 

[badog]

Skywest's financials are public. You want 150 an hour then the company will be out of business as soon as they blow through their cash reserves. This isn't the government, we have to make money and we have relatively fixed revenue.

Case in point.
Uncle Jerry is rich because of your lame wage.
Poor silly souls.
He gives 10% of his $$ to the moron church.
How about a raise there inc ?

 

[fastback]

Sure I do. The company gave you a cup of kool aid and butchered your health insurance. Then you coat-tailed Asa's sacrifice and hard work on a contract and got Asa +$1, and another cup of kool aid.

At that same time, did ASA not get improved work rules / day rigs to match Skywest? Asking, honest question.

 

[sniper]

SkyWest Airlines Pilot Association

SAPA President Update

June 21, 2013

Negotiations Update

The negotiating committee met with management this week and everyone seems to want to know how it is going. Frankly, it is still very early in the process. This update will be a little short on details but I will be working with the committee in the coming weeks to get more data and information to the pilot group.

Our goal as the SAPA negotiating committee is to get the BEST overall package that we can. With 3200 pilots, we know the group will have 3200 different opinions on what is best. We are listening to your ideas as well as your wants and needs and will try to convince SkyWest to deliver. The SAPA Representative Board will guide and advise the negotiating committee through this process. Once we have a package that the Board finds acceptable, it will be sent to the pilot group. At that point, THE PILOTS will decide by a direct vote to approve or reject. We have no idea how long this will take, or even IF we will be able to negotiate an agreement that we can support.

It should come as no surprise that both SAPA and the Company have both spent a lot of time prepping for these negotiations. Much of the first meeting was spent talking about the current state of the industry, SkyWest profitability, the new E175 orders, and pilot contracts/pay at other carriers. In addition, we explored a few ideas that would provide mutual benefits to SkyWest and our pilots. We agreed to meet again in a few weeks after reviewing some of the ideas presented.

First, the good news is that SkyWest, Inc. IS making money. The recent orders for E175s show that SkyWest INC is willing to invest in this market and has a positive long term outlook. Publically filed financial statements show that SkyWest Airlines is doing well, while ExpressJet still has a lot of work to do to regain profitability.

The challenge is that the 50 seat market is slowly shrinking and being replaced by new 70-90 seat aircraft. The number of SkyWest CRJ 200s will be reduced as scope limitations kick in. SkyWest has approximately 100 aircraft coming off contract in the next 3 years. ExpressJet has about 150 coming off contract in the same time frame. SkyWest is competing for new flying against a number of other carriers with costs significantly lower than ours. It is important for everyone that we win our fair share of the replacement flying, and the hope is that SkyWest can win enough to continue to grow.

So what does that mean for us? It?s hard to tell. In the last year, SkyWest won 40-E175s for United, and a handful 700s and 900s for Alaska and US Air. Unfortunately, we missed out on some significant awards for Delta and American. The additional E175 orders/options are contingent on us winning more flying contracts. We know we won't win them all, but our expectation is that SkyWest will continue to compete and will secure new flying opportunities. Management contends that our pilot compensation is one of the biggest challenges to winning new contracts and believes that Mesa and Pinnacle contracts are the new standard.

In addition, the FAR 117 rest rule changes and the possible 'pilot shortage' from mainline hiring make it anyone's guess on how things will actually play out. Many have suggested that it may be unwise to lock ourselves into anything long term while facing so much uncertainty.

Well, that's the short update. We've been asked to provide more info to the pilot group so look for future updates from the committee with graphs, tables, and other information. We appreciate your support.

I thought SKW had no union
and ALPA drive failled 2 times

 

[wms]

At that same time, did ASA not get improved work rules / day rigs to match Skywest? Asking, honest question.

No. We negotiated the hard way for five years, suffered unethical mgmt tactics and a slow down to get what we got. Then we got coat tailed.

If I were at Skyw I would probably not want a union. But the past actions of our company show that without union protections we would have whatever the company wants shoved down our throats. Also, the fact that we are union forces inc to give you guys what we have plus a little to keep you happy.

Not to mention there is no sacrifice made by your group to get the improvements you've gotten, not even a monetary due.

 

[wms]

I thought SKW had no union
and ALPA drive failled 2 times

It failed because a failure to cast a vote counted as a "no" vote. The rules for that have changed to read only cast ballots count. That could have made the difference.

The company then showed its appreciation by changing health benefits for the worse.

 

[fastback]

No. We negotiated the hard way for five years, suffered unethical mgmt tactics and a slow down to get what we got. Then we got coat tailed.

If I were at Skyw I would probably not want a union. But the past actions of our company show that without union protections we would have whatever the company wants shoved down our throats. Also, the fact that we are union forces inc to give you guys what we have plus a little to keep you happy.

Not to mention there is no sacrifice made by your group to get the improvements you've gotten, not even a monetary due.

Are you telling me that around the same time that OO got the purported coattails raise, that then-EV did not receive work rule enhancements in line with those of Skywest airlines?

I'm not asking about the length of negotiations, or the honesty or competence of BL and his ilk, or your slowdown [I've heard from several old-timers that those work rules at Skywest were the result of a safety campaign well before my time, not some magnanimous managerial gesture].

Just asking whether your contract improving your work rules was signed around the same time that our pay raise was implemented.

 

[Flyer1015]

But but SkyWest is non-union! Where do they have leverage to pay 20 year CRJ-900 Captains at $112/hr?

 

[bmpilot2003]

It failed because a failure to cast a vote counted as a "no" vote. The rules for that have changed to read only cast ballots count. That could have made the difference.

The company then showed its appreciation by changing health benefits for the worse.

These two statements have zero correlation and are false. There was a 3 year period between voting down alpa and then getting rid of the HMO option. The drive failed because the majority here genuinely does not what a union no matter how the votes are counted.

 

[Nevets]

But but SkyWest is non-union! Where do they have leverage to pay 20 year CRJ-900 Captains at $112/hr?

From the union pilots at other carriers. They even get known crewmember and they are non-union!

 

[Flyer1015]

From the union pilots at other carriers. They even get known crewmember and they are non-union!

No. The general consensus is union regionals are better and more protected for pay and QOL. What about Skywest. 9E got totally screwed in BK and struggled for 6 years under amendable date to get a new contract. Skywest has gotten payraises and such.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

What amazes me is how some ExpressJet pilots love to hate SkyWest.. How many SkyWest pilots here on FI and APC would start topics about ExpressJet dispatch, fo's helping rampers out and internal 'union' newsletters trying to make ExpressJet look stupid or less? ... 0

This tells me much more about certain individuals at ExpressJet than it does about SkyWest as a company..

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Grow a pair and move on. Otherwise, shut the F:!k up.


I have no sympathy for folks who complain about the regional business while accepting the pay and flying the machines. As long as you continue to show for work, YOU are the problem.


Bob

 

[Nevets]

No. The general consensus is union regionals are better and more protected for pay and QOL. What about Skywest. 9E got totally screwed in BK and struggled for 6 years under amendable date to get a new contract. Skywest has gotten payraises and such.

Well, you said it yourself. Pinnacle was in bankruptcy. If they had no union, management would have screwed them even worse. The fact is that Skywest management gives you enough to keep you non-union. The mere fact that others are unionized and Skywest isn't, helps the skywest pilots. Thus, that's how you they ride the coat tails. Everyone else is trying to fight for better with intransigent management.

You can't have it both ways. If unionized pilot groups have NEVER helped the non-unionized ones, then you can't blame the unionized ones for bringing down the non-unionized ones.

PS. Even though you conveniently ignored it, I'll say your welcome anyway.

 

[CFIT]

Myself and many others at SkyWest that went through all of the union drives would like to be union, just not ALPA.

That being said I think a union drive today would win but it been said that ALPA has lost so bad they won't try it.

Fact is ALPA is in it for the money so they are going to look out for their cash cow(s), the legacies. If ever something comes between a regional and a legacy ALPA has always sided with the money.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Grow a pair and move on. Otherwise, shut the F:!k up.


I have no sympathy for folks who complain about the regional business while accepting the pay and flying the machines. As long as you continue to show for work, YOU are the problem.


Bob

Rrrriiggghhhttt..... Says the guy who created a "B Scale" to fly the little jet!

 

[Ops check good]

What amazes me is how some ExpressJet pilots love to hate SkyWest.. How many SkyWest pilots here on FI and APC would start topics about ExpressJet dispatch, fo's helping rampers out and internal 'union' newsletters trying to make ExpressJet look stupid or less? ... 0

This tells me much more about certain individuals at ExpressJet than it does about SkyWest as a company..

^^^this guy gets it, end thread right here.

 

[Flyer1015]

Well, you said it yourself. Pinnacle was in bankruptcy. If they had no union, management would have screwed them even worse. The fact is that Skywest management gives you enough to keep you non-union. The mere fact that others are unionized and Skywest isn't, helps the skywest pilots. Thus, that's how you they ride the coat tails. Everyone else is trying to fight for better with intransigent management.

You can't have it both ways. If unionized pilot groups have NEVER helped the non-unionized ones, then you can't blame the unionized ones for bringing down the non-unionized ones.

PS. Even though you conveniently ignored it, I'll say your welcome anyway.

I don't think they could screw them any worse than say 'take this or be out of a job' and yet it happened to a union carrier. One ALPA carrier's contract (Delta) spelled the job loss of tons of regional pilots, also represented by ALPA. There's a huge conflict of interest. Anyway, Skywest hasn't just paid its pilots "just enough" to keep a union off. They've paid higher than even their average union regional counterpart.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Grow a pair and move on. Otherwise, shut the F:!k up.


I have no sympathy for folks who complain about the regional business while accepting the pay and flying the machines. As long as you continue to show for work, YOU are the problem.


Bob

Wow,
There is really one other guy who gets it...

 

[Nevets]

I don't think they could screw them any worse than say 'take this or be out of a job' and yet it happened to a union carrier. One ALPA carrier's contract (Delta) spelled the job loss of tons of regional pilots, also represented by ALPA. There's a huge conflict of interest. Anyway, Skywest hasn't just paid its pilots "just enough" to keep a union off. They've paid higher than even their average union regional counterpart.

You actually think they pay them out of benevolence? Keep in mind that many other regionals have been thru concessions so to say that the pay higher than their average union regional, doesn't say much at all. But if its true, then you guys have the opportunity to actually raise the bar. No excuses!

ALPA is 30 something separate independent unions associating together for the betterment of the profession. Each MEC decides if they want to participate in concessions or not just as each major MEC can decide to reign in scope if they want. No MEC tells another MEC what to negotiate for. And if they did, they would be laughed out of the room. This is what you guys don't understand. There is NO conflict of interest!

 

[wms]

At that same time, did ASA not get improved work rules / day rigs to match Skywest? Asking, honest question.

That part of the contract was agreed to way prior. Somewhere in the five years of negotiations. If you think the company just through improvements on the table out of fairness with Skyw, you're wrong.

 

[fastback]

That part of the contract was agreed to way prior. Somewhere in the five years of negotiations. If you think the company just through improvements on the table out of fairness with Skyw, you're wrong.

Somewhere in that 5 years, your management decided to bring your work rules exactly up to par with Skywest Airlines'? And this was unrelated to the pay rates at Skywest being brought up to ASA's? Which happened around the same time? Big copy.

 

[wms]

They brought them up because we would have voted no otherwise, which is an option you wouldnt know about.They gave us what we wanted in our contract because of a massive slowdown following a stall in negotiations, losing travel benefits and lines that were abusive.

I don't know why you can't get it through your mind the company didn't give us anything. We got it through negotiations and sacrifice, which is quite different than coat- tailing and accepting what the company offers because there is no collective bargaining process.

 

[wms]

These two statements have zero correlation and are false. There was a 3 year period between voting down alpa and then getting rid of the HMO option. The drive failed because the majority here genuinely does not what a union no matter how the votes are counted.

We still have the option because any changes have to be negotiated. An option you would've had if you had representation.

 

[fastback]

We still have the option because any changes have to be negotiated. An option you would've had if you had representation.

Boy you sure don't like having facts get in the way of your narrative. You completely missed my point. You're so obstinate and self-righteous you don't have the ability to engage in rational discussion about the differences between Skywest and former ASA. Dunzo.

 

[nerjdriver]

I don't think they could screw them any worse than say 'take this or be out of a job' and yet it happened to a union carrier. One ALPA carrier's contract (Delta) spelled the job loss of tons of regional pilots, also represented by ALPA. There's a huge conflict of interest. Anyway, Skywest hasn't just paid its pilots "just enough" to keep a union off. They've paid higher than even their average union regional counterpart.

Dont let NEVETS see that! HAHA. Things seem to be "right" there, but any union is a business and they want your money! Being collectively bargained has alot of pros, but also cons. At the end of the day it has nothing to do about national leadership, there isn't any, its about who occupies your MEC and your LEC's that do the work for you.

I love hearing how ALPA told SKYW guys that they'd never get a job if they arent union or it helps getting one. OR that theyll get an instant raise. Bunch of BS, youll keep the status quo, have the benefits of being collectively bargained, and had access to the national committees that do a bunch of good work (medical, legal, hims, contract enforcement, scheduling, and so on).

 

[Nevets]

Dont let NEVETS see that! HAHA.

You missed my rebuttal.

 

[wrightbros]

SKY West is better off without a union because they could end up with a sked chair with lms running around pushing PBS that everyone else in the industry didn't want! ALPo is a joke they don't listen to pilots they just push what they think is best.

 

[Nevets]

SKY West is better off without a union because they could end up with a sked chair with lms running around pushing PBS that everyone else in the industry didn't want! ALPo is a joke they don't listen to pilots they just push what they think is best.

Is that what they did with flight line? Who pushed for AOS?