Same old same old...

Lord Wakefield

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Are we at NJ going to layoff? Perhaps.

Things are definitely slower although some of this may be from improvements in scheduling where ferries no longer account for 40% of the flying (try getting an F/O thru IOE these days!)

I predict the same people will be working (more) and the same people will be sitting home (more). And when the IBB eliminated so-called "equal distribution of flying" it removed everyone's right to squawk about it.

Whether it was FIFO or pledges to do something about the A-team, equal distribution of flying was never taken seriously by the company and never seriously enforced by the unions.

So, how are the shrewd pilots going to milk the system now?

Well, if you're on a busy fleet and live in a busy gateway where there's a real chance of flying a company plane on your first and last days--- Take the time off. Two days off is better than 1.5 times your daily rate, especially considering what Obamasiah will take from your cheque.

But, the ones who are really going to score.... That'll be those in slow fleets who live in BF. Don't take the time off, there's a limit to the number of days in a year or a lifetime. Take the money, you'll hardly be working anyway. You would've probably sat home those days you were going to comp. Let your brother and sister pilots earn the extra pay you receive at home.


Nothing changes.

How dire is the situation? Who knows. A lot of us would have a lot easier time believing mngmt if it weren't for their tactics in 2005. If I see NJCrewserver or NJAOwner commenting here, I'll conclude it's all a ruse. But, personally, I think we're headed down the toilet with a lot of other businesses. And yet, I think our chances of survival are pretty good. Better than GM, Chrysler, Flops, or a lot of BRKHTHWY companies for that matter.

If I was a ruthless CEO, I'd say shred the list and furlough by aircraft and gateway. They're laying off all the pilots in Bozeman?? Move!


Glad I bought that property in Cody, I'm going to make the best of this slowdown.
 

netjetwife

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LW, I bet there are a lot of NJ pilots who would be uncomfortable taking full pay/not reducing their schedule when they're spending lots of time at home. :erm: My family would feel guilty doing that, but aside from the moral implications of your advice, I don't recommend it. Shared burdens are always lighter and the jobs NJ pilots save by helping out could well be their own!
 

Lord Wakefield

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God love NJW. If more people thought like her
 

netjetwife

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Thanks for the kind words, Sir...:) Based on their behavior for the past 5 years, I do think the majority of the NJ pilots will do their part to show solidarity to their fellow pilots and to make the Joint Preventive Measures an example worth following. Given their track record, I can't see the pilotgroup throwing in the towel just because times are tough. NJW
 

gret

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Right! We're going to have mothers bake us cookies so we can feel better.
 

NJACrewservicer

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Why are you bringing me into this?....I haven't posted in over a year! LOL
 

pilotyip

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Time will tell how it will go, the jury is still out at this time.
 

G200_PILOT

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NJW, even though I know where you're coming from, it's important to also keep in mind that not every pilot can afford to take any sort of a pay cut. For many years, we worked for wages WAY below what they should have been. Some have accrued quite a bit of debt during that time. Whether it was reckless spending or due to something that was out of their control, the debt still exists. I know because I'm one of those pilots. I'm currently taking a 5 day leave this month and another 5 days in July or August. I could use sick days but I'm budgeting so I can contribute to the cause. As far as taking a hit every month though, I just can't do it. I'll do as much as I can.
 

netjetwife

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G200, I realize that participation will vary among the NJ pilots/families. Next time I'll use that popular disclaimer...your mileage may vary....:)

The beauty of the package is that it allows a wide range of application in using the options. A pilot can work a reduced schedule every month or just take a day here and there, as their budget allows.

Knowing that a caring attitude is critical for success, I believe we'll see a motivated pilotgroup eager to do what they can. I also think that momentum will build as the process unfolds and more employees, company wide, start pulling together. NJW
 

Diesel

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petitepilot

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Yes.
I do not think it is appropriate for a non-pilot, non-union member, to be posting on a public web board, and siting the details of a union agreement.
 

Caveman

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Thanks for the kind words, Sir...:) Based on their behavior for the past 5 years, I do think the majority of the NJ pilots will do their part to show solidarity to their fellow pilots and to make the Joint Preventive Measures an example worth following. Given their track record, I can't see the pilotgroup throwing in the towel just because times are tough. NJW
Wow. You really don't have any idea how the world works do you? Your old man ain't in the Air Force any more honey. That solidarity and camaraderie that exists in the military does not apply in the civilian world. Most pilots at any airline or any fractional will do the right thing if everyone else is participating. i.e.: Most will not pick up open time when guys are furloughed. We'll pay for COBRA for furloughed pilots. We will agree to smaller line values if it will keep everybody working. However, if there is an option to participate or not to participate and there won't be any condemnation either way, MOST guys are going to keep on working as if nothing ever happened. There will always be a few that take advantage of early outs, LOAs, reduced schedules, etc. Make no mistake though, they aren't doing it out of 'brotherhood'. They're doing it because it fits their own unique circumstances and that's it.

I wouldn't count on an overwhelming collective response to NJA's efforts to mitigate furloughs if I were you unless any steps taken are mandatory and not voluntary. Sorry, to be the bearer of bad news, but welcome to the real world.
 
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netjetwife

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Cave, my family has directed benefited from the "brotherhood" you claim doesn't exist at NJA. Again, my thanks to the pilots who supported the bypass pay effort; your concern for others got 118 of the FOs off of the (then) sub-par wages. Those pilots no longer assigned to 1 of the 5 domiciles are likewise appreciative that IBB passed even though the most junior on the list also gained the most. NJASAP (formerly 1108) apparently doesn't match your union experience, Cave. It's no coincidence that the movement which created their solidarity was called StrongUnion. The NJ pilots truly understand that they are the Union and are the strongest when they stand together. They are well aware of how other groups operate and chose not to follow that path. They also developed a working relationship with the Company that few other aviation unions enjoy. The NJ pilotgroup decided to turn their back on your "real" world and create their own--NJASAP.

I think that the Preventive Measures which NJASAP helped design are attractive enough to appeal to many NJ employees (it's not just for pilots) and could have a significant cumulative affect. They will realize that this isn't just about avoiding furloughs. In this unparalleled (for NJA) economic downturn, it is in everyone's best interest to stand together as a company if they want to remain the fractional leader. The pilots have a lot of experience working together for a common goal so it is logical to anticipate that they will do their part to keep NJA/I strong. As an added benefit, they will be helping to save jobs in the process. Thus, I think the majority will participate voluntarily.
 
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Lord Wakefield

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Nothing equitable about this slow down so far. I've never been so current in my career and yet I keep running into folks who are staying home, getting sent home so early, and getting bed sores in the hotels. There most be more because these are just the ones who occassionally turn up in the FBOs telling me this.

I'm paid to go out every other week, but I would sure appreciate "duty at residence."
Guess I got to relocate to East BF to get that.

Any grudges previously held against those who opted out are hereby recinded
 

RNObased

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Nothing equitable about this slow down so far. I've never been so current in my career and yet I keep running into folks who are staying home, getting sent home so early, and getting bed sores in the hotels. There most be more because these are just the ones who occassionally turn up in the FBOs telling me this.

I'm paid to go out every other week, but I would sure appreciate "duty at residence."
Guess I got to relocate to East BF to get that.

Any grudges previously held against those who opted out are hereby recinded
Lord,
It is all in what jet you fly. Bigger cabin aircraft ie; owners with deeper pockets and a airplane that is a up grade, are working like normal. I have been sent home early twice, because it made sense, plane gone to new crew, etc. That is it.

I just shake my head when people tell me about every other tour at home. Must be nice. This will change for the most part when the buyouts are done, possibly. Some fleets are just plain over staffed for demand.

Nice to see you are no longer holding grudges.
 
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CRAWDADDY

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I'm paid to go out every other week, but I would sure appreciate "duty at residence."
Guess I got to relocate to East BF to get that.
Always been that way. Cut back in scheduling!
 

gutshotdraw

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It will take a while for the departures of early outs and LOA's to be felt. NJ'ers saw how many NJI people are departing the pattern. Crew Resources won't be finished plugging holes and letting people go until December.
 

RNObased

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It will take a while for the departures of early outs and LOA's to be felt. NJ'ers saw how many NJI people are departing the pattern. Crew Resources won't be finished plugging holes and letting people go until December.
I was told the G whiz's won't be backfilled for a while. Now what that means is anyone's guess.
 

gutshotdraw

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We were already somewhat overstaffed even before the downturn (I'll leave the reasons alone) so I doubt any of the attrition will be re-filled. So far, only G-IV's and future delivery positions of 450/550's are being sold. If the fleet size does shrink, people way above my pay grade will be having lots of meetings...:rolleyes:
 
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