Sale of 135 Ops

[siegelaviation]

Ok, I am trying to find information on how and if it is possible to sell a 135 certificate. My POI said that I would have to sell the entire company, including it's assets, but there is not one reg out there that supports this statement. Anyone know the best way to go down this road?

Thanks!

Michael

 

[climbhappy]

hi, been down this road

i am a former certificate holder. first based on your question, it is not possible to sell a certificate.

what is possible : to sell the company, a legal corporation incorporated in one of our fifty states

to sell an airplane that is listed on the op specs of the certificate holder which might be owned by this so called company or by you and you lease it back to the company that operates the airplane on the ceritificate and is listed on your op spec.


a certificate is the property of the FAA . it issued to allow those operations specified on the op spec.

i know, i know, you see it in trade a plane. all these clowns are trying to do is sell you some hangar queen or maybe legit business.

if you chose not to conduct the business say in south florida where it is, then you would have to undergo complete recertification up in the city and under the watchful eye of the FSDO in your district.

they would have to issue a letter approving the relocation of the business entity.

it just gets more boring from here. after you pass your checkride and they issue new op specs, then you could conduct the conduct the operations listed in you op specs as stated.


that is why you see so many airplanes adverttised as Part 135 current, or just off 135.

finally, regs cover operations and flight related topics. these things are clearly talked about with your POI when you sit down and begin this process.

 

[Hung Start]

I did it. But Climb is pretty much dead on. I sold the entire corporation, with the already approved aircraft. Business stayed at the same location. And, the FAA made me stay on for at least 6 months as the DOO to "ease" the transition.
Otherwise, back to square one for recert.

Hardest thing was getting the insurance carrier to play along. They were the ones that almost stopped the transaction.

Hung

 

[dhc8fo]

I got the same story from my FSDO when I was thinking about BUYING one instead of creating one. Gotta buy the company and its assets INCLUDING the people in the named positions (DOM and DO, etc) and then phase them out with whoever you want to replace them with (after their approval, of course). When you "buy a certificate" you are really just getting their documents. Most people don't realize this. I even saw one guy trying to sell his single-pilot certificate....don't know how he expected to accomplish that one.

 

[Publishers]

From a business point of view, there is a review for a "substantial change in ownership or management" of your certificate. Therefore, even if you buy the company, that is no guarantee that you can keep the certificate.
In many cases, the continuing liability of a company, you know the damage or accident that you are not aware of until the lawsuit comes after you purchase it, and this review are enough that one is better just going and starting one from scratch.

 

[Hung Start]

Well, I may respectfully disagree with Mr. Publishers. Sort of. Although what he says carries some weight, if you do any kind of due dilligance you should be able to dig up potential lawsuits. Or at least have it written into your contract that the previous owner will be financially liable (including defending, etc) past practices.
But as far as the operational side of things, no FSDO is going to let you waltz in with a big check and just launch. They are going to want YOU to have significant operational experience in running, managing or whatever a muti plane /multi pilot operation. Unless you show that ALL the same management is staying inplace. So, that means DO, DOM, and Chief are all going to have to stay in place for a while. Give it a year or so, but ou can rest assured that they will be visiting, often.

Hung

 

[siegelaviation]

I got the same story from my FSDO when I was thinking about BUYING one instead of creating one. Gotta buy the company and its assets INCLUDING the people in the named positions (DOM and DO, etc) and then phase them out with whoever you want to replace them with (after their approval, of course). When you "buy a certificate" you are really just getting their documents. Most people don't realize this. I even saw one guy trying to sell his single-pilot certificate....don't know how he expected to accomplish that one.

I am selling my Single Pilot Cert. It is actually easier than any other Certificate. Either I can add him as the pilot of record and add his plane before the sale, or he can do it after. As long as he meets the 135 flight requirements, he is ok.

 

[climbhappy]

quote: i am selling my single pilot certficate.


i think there are some misused words here. in a sense you could say that, but technically it is still incorrect. we've just debated the entire nature of a government issued piece of paper, the same one that hangs in Delta airlines lobby. In that context, i don't see on the Majors board, " US Airways to buy Delta certifcate. In that sense one can see how inaccurate the above statement is. Kind of like "on glideslope" you either are or you aren't!!

just an observation.

 

[siegelaviation]

quote: i am selling my single pilot certficate.


i think there are some misused words here. in a sense you could say that, but technically it is still incorrect. we've just debated the entire nature of a government issued piece of paper, the same one that hangs in Delta airlines lobby. In that context, i don't see on the Majors board, " US Airways to buy Delta certifcate. In that sense one can see how inaccurate the above statement is. Kind of like "on glideslope" you either are or you aren't!!

just an observation.

Sorry. I am selling my 135 Business. :blush:

 

[climbhappy]

no apology needed

with all due respect, i was simply looking at the way our jargon and terminology can play on words.


i think i have also heard that under Part 119 you may have to prove financial health to get that recert after a mvoe across FSDO lines or state lines.