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RVSM with no Autopilot?

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illeagle

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Posts
116
We have a Citation Ultra without a working autopilot and yaw damper. Can we legally operate in RVSM airspace? Altitude selector and flight director work. What's your take? Thanks.
 
It is my understanding that you may not operate in RVSM without a functioning A/P.

RVSM operations require.

1. Two independent Altimetry systems.

2. One Automatic Altitude Control System:
A) installed and Capable of Altitude Keeping.
B)+ or - 65' Straight and level flight
C) Nonturbulant / Nongust conditions
D) Engaged for RVSM Operations

3. One Altitude Alert System

4. Transponder required
 
No. Our AP was MEL'd this week and we had to fly around at FL280 and below until they fixed it.
 
Maybe, you can ask the controller. At 0900Z flying between SEA and FAR they may let you do it.
 
If you fly like your screen name then by all means go RVSM without an operable autopilot.

If you need to come to a fourm like this to find out if it's compliant with the FARs then I hope you are not the one at your company with responsibility for such decisions.
 
no unless you tell the controllers that you are not rvsm and get a unrestricted climb to fl430
 
illeagle said:
We have a Citation Ultra without a working autopilot and yaw damper. Can we legally operate in RVSM airspace? Altitude selector and flight director work. What's your take? Thanks.
Click to expand...


You know dude, there is this book called the FAR's and another book that you probably got when your jet was cert'ed for RVSM that you may want to crack (ie; open and READ), before coming on here and asking DUMB questions. I also think the AFM may have something to say about hand flying at 430, but I could be wrong. FYI, the AFM is another book in your plane, it kind of comes in handy on occasion, or maybe you ignore it.

There is an old saying that that says something like, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot, then to open it and remove all doubt." I believe that applies to your question. Possibly one of the dumbest things I have seen posted on this board.
 
RNObased said:
You know dude, there is this book called the FAR's and another book that you probably got when your jet was cert'ed for RVSM that you may want to crack (ie; open and READ), before coming on here and asking DUMB questions. I also think the AFM may have something to say about hand flying at 430, but I could be wrong. FYI, the AFM is another book in your plane, it kind of comes in handy on occasion, or maybe you ignore it.

There is an old saying that that says something like, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are an idiot, then to open it and remove all doubt." I believe that applies to your question. Possibly one of the dumbest things I have seen posted on this board.
Click to expand...


Lighten up Francis, no need to be hostile and insulting. Just a simple question for the professionals out there. I asked 3 pilots and got 3 different answers at the local airport. The only DUMB question is the one not asked . I guess you have it all figured out already though...
 
illeagle said:
Lighten up Francis, no need to be hostile and insulting. Just a simple question for the professionals out there. I asked 3 pilots and got 3 different answers at the local airport. The only DUMB question is the one not asked . I guess you have it all figured out already though...
Click to expand...

Professionals pick up the books and try to find the answer themselves, therefore reinforcing what they learn. And yes I had it figured out, because when RVSM came into effect, it directly effected what I do for a living and since I didn't want to get violated I READ about the rules that govern said RVSM.

I still don't know why you didn't try to find the answer yourself instead of asking the local airport experts. And yes it is a dumb question and if you are sick of being insulted maybe next time, you will put in the 5 minutes it takes to look up a easy question, that could directly effect what you do a for living. Instead of coming onto a public web site and asking a silly question.
 
I think you need to bid the "home base" and get off the RNO base. You must be a prize to fly and RNO with... You know, there are plenty of Decaf brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

Thanks to everyone else for the answers to the original scenario question.
 
illeagle said:
I think you need to bid the "home base" and get off the RNO base. You must be a prize to fly and RNO with... You know, there are plenty of Decaf brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

Thanks to everyone else for the answers to the original scenario question.
Click to expand...

I'm fine to fly with, but I don't think you would want to fly with me, because I don't like flying with people too lazy to look something up.
 
Funny our FAA approved COM, says "If your autopilot fails while in RVSM airspace be prepared to leave RVSM airspace if requested by ATC. Kind of leaves it at if requested, meaning they may not request it.
 
pilotyip said:
Funny our FAA approved COM, says "If your autopilot fails while in RVSM airspace be prepared to leave RVSM airspace if requested by ATC. Kind of leaves it at if requested, meaning they may not request it.
Click to expand...

Two different things, your COM is approved by the Administrator as specified per the FAR and it includes this specific provision.

Being outside of RVSM and requesting ATC clearance to enter it when you do not meet the requirements is not something ATC can authorize. You would either need that ability listed in your COM or a waiver from the Administrator. If you ask and they give it to you, you are accepting an illegal clearance.
 
AC560 said:
Two different things, your COM is approved by the Administrator as specified per the FAR and it includes this specific provision.

Being outside of RVSM and requesting ATC clearance to enter it when you do not meet the requirements is not something ATC can authorize. You would either need that ability listed in your COM or a waiver from the Administrator. If you ask and they give it to you, you are accepting an illegal clearance.
Click to expand...

And you are going to tell center that.....you have no idea what there rules are and they do have guidance on all manner of issues that appear black and white in the regs....In time you will realize that very few operations are conducted under an off-the-shelf copy of the FAR's
 
tico said:
In time you will realize that very few operations are conducted under an off-the-shelf copy of the FAR's
Click to expand...

Maybe so but I find most investigations are conducted with an off the shelf copy.

If you want to contribute to the thread with some sort of knowledge I am always one looking to learn. If you want to jerk your e-penis feel free as well, it takes a bit more then a Metro pilot to impress me though.
 
AC560 said:
Maybe so but I find most investigations are conducted with an off the shelf copy.

If you want to contribute to the thread with some sort of knowledge I am always one looking to learn. If you want to jerk your e-penis feel free as well, it takes a bit more then a Metro pilot to impress me though.
Click to expand...

Actually you are correct if the operation under question was a part 91 operation....You will find as you move into part 135 and part 121 operations that most investigations will be conducted using the "approved' manual that the operation is being conducted under....That manual will have its basis in the off-the-shelf copy but it will be modified accordingly...
 
Actually, while ATC may not have the authority to clear you to operate RVSM, they do have the authority to clear you to "RVSM altitudes." If they clear you to, say FL330, knowing you are not RVSM qualified, they are responsible to provide you standard (non-RVSM) separation, just like the old days. The only gotcha here is that you must inform each subsequent controller, upon check-in, of your non-RVSM status.
 

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