RVSM Is Finally Here !!

[ultrarunner]

I hope you are right and it all works out that way.

Here is another point to ponder. The boss buys a new airplane you are going to have to wait until you get an approved RVSM manuel for THAT airplane Unless you have somehow arranged to have an approved RVSM manuel for THAT airplane you will be stuck at FL280. The manuels are not transferable from one to another, you will have to go throught the whole approval process with the feds. Which could take weeks or months to get your "New" manuel approved. Don't think the boss is going to be happy with that. I spoke to our local FAA RVSM rep about this issue and he said he didn't see anyway around it.

Yep, this is an issue. However, many FSDO's have been turning LOA requests in 30 days. For RVSM 'out of the box ready' airplanes, new operators will likely be able to submit the required paper work prior to taking delivery. I suspect they will have LOA's before leaving the completion centers.

 

[TonyC]

I guess if you are flying freight in the middle of the night you are not too worried about it.

You know what? I'm tired of being civil, and I had a bad day yesterday.

You're a moron.

Here is another point to ponder. The boss buys a new airplane you are going to have to wait until you get an approved RVSM manuel for THAT airplane Unless you have somehow arranged to have an approved RVSM manuel for THAT airplane you will be stuck at FL280. The manuels are not transferable from one to another, you will have to go throught the whole approval process with the feds. Which could take weeks or months to get your "New" manuel approved. Don't think the boss is going to be happy with that. I spoke to our local FAA RVSM rep about this issue and he said he didn't see anyway around it.

It's a shame they just announced RVSM last week, isn't it? Caught everyone off guard. Terribly unfair. Oh, the injustice

It's manuAl.


MORON !



(I'll think about taking it back tomorrow.)

 

[dispatchguy]

As far as T-props, I've never flown one above 270.

I remember jumpseating up front ORDPHX and KC Center calling opposite direction traffic, 12 oclock, 5 miles, King Air at FL330...

Sure nuf, this King air passes us contrailing at 330 (we were at 310).

So, some can get up there....

 

[The Av1ator]

Thanks for the spelling lession and I have certainly been called worse.

 

[Brett Hull]

You know what? I'm tired of being civil, and I had a bad day yesterday.

You're a moron.

That's real classy. I thought someone of your obviously superior intellect wouldn't have to resort to name-calling (I'm not even sure that's supposed to be hyphenated, but I'm sure you'll let us all know if it isn't).

It's a shame they just announced RVSM last week, isn't it? Caught everyone off guard. Terribly unfair. Oh, the injustice

MORON !

That's not even the point he was trying to make (notice I'm not going to call you any names, and I'm not even a college graduate). There's a company that's scheduled to take delivery of a brand new Challenger 300 just after the new year. They're estimating that they'll be stuck at 270 and below (can't use 280 since 290 is an RVSM altitude) for up to 90 days because their FSDO will not allow them to submit their application until they take delivery. Should this be acceptable? And I'm quite sure they've been aware of the implementation date for some time.

 

[pilotyip]

It is here, we will make it work.

 

[beernuts]

Well it wouldn't have done any good at all for all of us stuck with 2+ hour gate holds at TEB last night (12/8...confirmed by questioning ATC). All it will do is allow more enroute traffic to show up at the same time and create even bigger delays trying to get on or off the airports that still have the same amount of runways and surrounding terminal space. The best answer is BUILD MORE RUNWAYS. Preferrably parallel runways that allow simultaneous ILS approaches.

 

[Bandit60]

Do you drive a car to work? How's the traffic? Do you ever have to slow down for someone in front of you?

If the next time you drove to work there were magically twice as many lanes available to choose from, do you think the commute would be less congested, or more congested?


If the lanes are doubled, and the VOLUME of traffic is doubled, logic would demand that it is JUST AS congested. If the lanes are doubled and the volume is MORE THAN doubled, it would be more congested. But if the lanes are doubled, and the volume is not doubled, it would have to be LESS CONGESTED.


I don't see the volume doubling overnight. In fact, given the capacity limits at airports, I don't see the volume doubling for several overnights.


RVSM has the effect of doubling the number of lanes, and taking a lot of the curves and bends out of the roads. Instead of following the 2-lane winding State highway through every podunk municipality with a local yokel cop and a radar gun, I get to hop on the 4- or 6-lane divided highway Interstate. I'm in!

I understand what you are saying but if you have 5 lanes of traffic but only one lane to exit the highway, you will find delays.

 

[DesertFalcon]

I don't see how RVSM is going to create more congestion. Congestion would require either increasing the number of airplanes airborne, or decreasing the space they have to fit in. RVSM does neither. Inasmuch as it will eliminate the airplanes that are not RVSM compliant, it will do the opposite.

The big advantage I see, though, is the increased routing options. Today if I'm stuck at an altitude behind a slower aircraft going the same general direction, I can descend 4,000' (and burn more gas), climb 4,000' (if I'm even able, and burn more gas), slow down (and burn more gas), or get vectors around the slower airplane (and - - you got it - - burn more gas). With the additional options of descend or climb 2,000, I have more options, better options, and a far greater chance of receiving more direct routing. Even if traffic is not an issue, the greater variety of flight levels means I get to fly at an altitude closer to my optimum altitude.


If that gets me to my destination sooner, that ALSO means less congestion of the friendly skies.

True statement...... Here's something to think about:

You cruising at FL370 and you have rapid decompression occur... Your RVSM with heavy traffic in the area at all lower altitudes. You turn off the airway and declare and emergency.

With RVSM your chances of hitting another aircraft, on the way down, is going to be much greater!

So, the solution? Another Avionic requirment imposed by the FAA..... Here is what it will be called..... (I made this up.)

ETAS = Enroute Traffic Awareness System.

With ETAS installed you be able to see the aircraft, on the display, just before you hit it!

 

[FracCapt]

With ETAS installed you be able to see the aircraft, on the display, just before you hit it!

Well, in that case....I already have an ETAS....I call it a windshield!

 

[Daveman]

Well, TonyC has been (in my opinion) a fair and honest guy.
Cut some slack.

 

[TonyC]

That's real classy. I thought someone of your obviously superior intellect wouldn't have to resort to name-calling (I'm not even sure that's supposed to be hyphenated, but I'm sure you'll let us all know if it isn't).


That's not even the point he was trying to make (notice I'm not going to call you any names, and I'm not even a college graduate).

I apologize for the outburst. I had a crummy day, and my patience was expended. No excuse - - I should have never logged on.

When The Av1ator impugned my opinion based on his incorrect assumption that I "DON"T (sic) fly into the Northeast or any BUSY airspace" I was patient and made the point where I fly is irrelevant. I didn't even mention that he was wrong in assuming he knew where I fly.

When he impugned my opinion based on another incorrect assumption and irrelevant point, I opted for a shorter answer. What I should have said was, "not only do I not fly only at night, but the time I fly and the contents of the airplane behind the cockpit door have no bearing whatsoever on RVSM or my opinion of RVSM."

I've flown in RVSM. I will continue to fly in RVSM. I like RVSM.

I'll stay away from the keyboard next time.

 

[Daveman]

I'll stay away from the keyboard next time.

Hope ya don't. I, for one respect your input!
Trust me, not blowin' smoke up yer arse.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

Do you drive a car to work? How's the traffic? Do you ever have to slow down for someone in front of you?

If the next time you drove to work there were magically twice as many lanes available to choose from, do you think the commute would be less congested, or more congested?


If the lanes are doubled, and the VOLUME of traffic is doubled, logic would demand that it is JUST AS congested. If the lanes are doubled and the volume is MORE THAN doubled, it would be more congested. But if the lanes are doubled, and the volume is not doubled, it would have to be LESS CONGESTED.


I don't see the volume doubling overnight. In fact, given the capacity limits at airports, I don't see the volume doubling for several overnights.


RVSM has the effect of doubling the number of lanes, and taking a lot of the curves and bends out of the roads. Instead of following the 2-lane winding State highway through every podunk municipality with a local yokel cop and a radar gun, I get to hop on the 4- or 6-lane divided highway Interstate. I'm in!

Not to rekindle any arguments.....................Aaaaaawwww, what the heck! Why are we all here anyway?
I do like the highway analogy. It makes it much easier for simple brained dolts such as myself to comprehend and rationalize. So......to continue under this rationale.......You increase the number of lanes, while the volume of traffic remains the same? More lanes+same traffic volume=more air between vehicles! Let me ask you. Does this Utopian SuperSlab have offramps and interchanges and provide access to slower city roads or do the, now happier, motorists drone along euphorically until they run out of fuel?

 

[TonyC]

Let me ask you. Does this Utopian SuperSlab have offramps and interchanges and provide access to slower city roads or do the, now happier, motorists drone along euphorically until they run out of fuel?

Same number of off ramps.

But since the "Slower Traffic Keep to the RIGHT" rule can be better enforced, I can pass the Airbus 300 and get to my off ramp ahead of him!