Runway incursion reconstructions- Yikes!!!

[EagleRJ]

Look at these computer animations made to investigate two 1999 runway incursions. Click_here

The pilot in the Providence incident made the initial mistake, but that tower controller is doing her best to cause an accident, isn't she? I hope she was decertified after this. No SA at all.

The Chicago incident is chilling too. Shades of Tenerife...

 

[Kream926]

ual knew exactly where they were. yes loss of SA by the controller and whay a way to keep her cool and remaining professional during this, kudos to the united crew for staying cool

 

[GravityHater]

US Air 2998 declining to take off in the face of a demanding controller.... great save.

 

[typhoonpilot]

ual knew exactly where they were.

After United 1448 landed on runway 5 Right, the tower controller instructed the flight crew to proceed to the terminal using taxiways November and Tango, and report crossing runway 16. During their taxi in the fog, the flight crew became disoriented and turned onto taxiway Bravo by mistake. They then provided incorrect position reports to the tower controller. The airplane ended up at the intersection of Runway 16 and Runway 23 left. Note that Runways 23 Left and 5 Right are opposite ends of the same runway. Shortly afterward, a Federal Express aircraft taking off from runway 5 Right passed very close to United 1448. The subsequent conversation between the tower controller and United 1448 shows continued uncertainty about the aircraft's position. For example, there will be several references to Runway 23 right while the airplane is actually on 23 left.

Umm, no they didn't. They only knew they weren't on the right taxiway to get to the terminal. I've heard the actual tapes and while the controller was partly to blame it was the United pilot that taxied on the wrong taxiway that started the whole mess. Fortunately she was smart enough to stop before entering the runway. The heroes in this were the USAir crew for not being bullied into taking off while an airplane was lost somewhere on the airport.


TP

 

[GravityHater]

Dumb luck that the US Air crew even heard all this, while on tower frequency. Most places I would miss it because we'd have switched to tower while they would have an airplane misplaced on ground. Just luck that it was early am, Tower and Ground were combined?
I have heard of guys listening on ground in the background when waiting to depart, just in case but I find it so distracting I usually don't.

 

[TrimixDeepDiver]

ual knew exactly where they were. yes loss of SA by the controller and whay a way to keep her cool and remaining professional during this, kudos to the united crew for staying cool

Uh, I think you got it wrong rookie, Kudos goes to the USAir Crew for not taking off and letting "Don't know where the Helll they are" United figure out what a mess they caused. They're lucky they didn't get fired.They did get some time off and an investigation by the FAA though...

 

[NuGuy]

US Air 2998 declining to take off in the face of a demanding controller.... great save.

These guys won the ALPA award that year for that save, and I think they got the FAA award that year, too.

Double and triple kudos for having their sh!t wired so early in the AM.

Nu

 

[minitour]

Studied both of these incidents for a paper I wrote while out in Okla-freakin-homa on aviation safety. Great job by the crew holding short to decline the takeoff clearance with the biotch in the tower being a biotch.

I really liked their response to her

"...they aren't anywhere near the runway, but you can hold short"

"...okay"

for some reason I got a kick out of that...spank!

Great job by that crew though.

The ORD one was a scarry one...how bad could that have been...wow

-mini

 

[funky]

Incredible turn of luck for the USAIR crew. Had they not heard ground they could have easily struck the wing of the United. I thought United shouldn't have moved once they stopped short of the active. Turning right slightly actually put out the wing of the plane into the active. Scary stuff.

I guess the moral of this story is that when you have little visiblity on the ground to monitor ground even when you are taking off. Lesson learned!

 

[flatspin7]

The USAir pilots did a great job of sticking to their guns... That controller was awful--- I hope she got repremanded.

just as an aside PVD now has ground radar (ASDE-X) so hopefully that will never happen again.

 

[apcooper]

Not to hijack this thread, but watching the ORD incursion made me wonder if anyone here knows the balanced field lenght for a 744 at gross wt at sea level density alt? The Korean Air 744 must have been flying non stop to SEL and very close to gross wt on TO!!

 

[GravityHater]

just as an aside PVD now has ground radar (ASDE-X) so hopefully that will never happen again.

The site also shows a sample of what the new software would do to prevent it, saying they would get 6 seconds warning.... When I watched the aeriel view with this software, I was thinking 'Hmmm, that might not be enough time.'

 

[urflyingme?!]

That thing made me sick!

"STOOOP!!" scary!

 

[NuGuy]

That thing made me sick!

"STOOOP!!" scary!

Yea, no kidding. The controller must have punched several grumpys....

They had a bad near miss at LGA a few years ago. Kind of a intersecting type of go-around thing. I heard the controllers had to take some leave after that.

Wussie that I am, I would have pissed myself right then and there....

Nu

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I'm pretty sure that controller at PVD is still there. Screwed me over once last summer panicking about a DC-3 blowing altitude alerts. Talked to another controller about it and he began to go off on her and then kept his cool. The USAir crew deserves the kudos in that incident, certainly not United.

Mr. I.

 

[funky]

I'm pretty sure that controller at PVD is still there. Screwed me over once last summer panicking about a DC-3 blowing altitude alerts. Talked to another controller about it and he began to go off on her and then kept his cool. The USAir crew deserves the kudos in that incident, certainly not United.

Mr. I.

If this is true that is unbelievable. I mean we're not talking about the equipment or the process here, the ACTUAL person is the problem in this particular situation. The controller's personality does not fit. Nobody should get irate or demonstrative over the air. ESPECIALLY ATC responsible for hundreds of lives each minute. Some people just handle stress that way -- she is one of them. Those people CANNOT be allowed to be in that position.

I can just hear in now (in a few years):

"United 331 cleared to land"
"United 331 turn at the next taxiway"
"Tower, United, we have a problem here with the hydraulics, standby"
"American 227 cleared to land, United please expedite your turn"
"Tower, United, we have a problem here and cannot exit the active"
"United, go around"


uuughghghggg