Rumors are that Delta .....scope....pilots.....$$$

[waveflyer]

I'm sure you and Scoot would LOVE for me to talk about the type rating requirement at swa- but that's a dodge and a distraction. You guys only bring it up to make yourself look better with your record on outsourcing. Just stop- or start a thread on that subject- but this one is about many, many contracts where delta has loosened scope for very little in return.

That said, I do agree that things change-
But then again, you just said it-
Six more seats wasn't worth liquidating-
Do you really believe those were the choices that you and DALPA faced?
76 seat 90 seaters or the entire network implodes?

Really?

If that's your strength- then I have every rationale to be fearful of what scope you'll give up next.

That's a dodge? I usually vote Republican too, but I couldn't vote for McCain and certainly not Palin during the last election, so I didn't. Things change. You have to look at the whole deal, and remember what was going on at the time. During the BK things were being fed to us that we possibly could liquidate. I felt, and told you guys the truth btw, that at that time 6 extra seats (first class seats as they were being sold to us), wouldn't be such a bad thing. I didn't think, at the time, that 6 extra seats per RJ were worth liquidating. Now things have changed, and I am certainly NOT willing now to give away anymore seats. If a TA comes along with planes going to DCI that are larger than 76 seats, I will vote NO. Where is the dodge?

And when it comes to dodging, please explain how your company policy of newhires having to have a 737 type rating (usually having to pay for it on their own) is a good thing for this industry? I bet 80% of your newhires have to pay for it out of their own pockets. That's not good. Nobody but Freebrd is perfect in this world, so try to remember that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Thank you for this response. Very well said.

Keep us informed will you- and keep talking and getting your senior to understand how devastating outsourcing has been for your junior.

Yes, I believe fuel is a huge factor in getting rid of RJs. The 50 seaters are just not even close to profit makers with high gas. I think DL may be still on the hook for some leases, and I think that is where they will try to sell us something, they want to dump the 50s BUT the manufacturers will allow a TRADE IN for larger RJs (76 seaters). I think they will say "we will bring the ratio of RJs down, but need to replace some of the 50s." Overall, that could be good for us---DCI probably flies 50 percent of our flying. The question is, is it better to bring to total ratio of flying down from 50/50 to 60/40 (in favor of mainline), but then replace some of those 50s with 76 seaters? OVERALL, the flying increases towards mainline (with 717s maybe on the way, and maybe some A319s too), but those 50s are replaced with bigger ones. Maybe the bigger ones on those current 50 seat routes might be able to make money (compared to the 50s---more seats might be able to do it?)? I don't know. The ratio coming down is great, but the 50s will be leaving regardless due to the higher gas prices. I'll have to see the full TA and see how they spin it, but I do know that I won't vote for any TA with even larger RJs going to DCI.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

Wasn't it senior SWA dudes who were the real pushers behind age 65?

 

[Hamfighter]

All I know is that with all the money we "save" farming out half the flying to RJs, delta can afford to PAY mainline. Oh yeah, and don't even try to give away one more seat.

 

[Rough67]

Wasn't it senior SWA dudes who were the real pushers behind age 65?

Yep..

 

[waveflyer]

You guys just can't stay on topic can you.
It was your ego in part that got us into this-
Have enough self esteem to address outsourcing without having to change the subject, talk like a kid, and say "but Mom!! It doesn't matter that I stole $5 out of your purse- Johnny DIDN'T RAKE THE LEAVES!!"

 

[Scoot 11]

Wasn't it senior SWA dudes who were the real pushers behind age 65?

According to "wave," that's a dodge!
But, to answer you question. YES, their senior pilots sold out their junior pilots in order to deepen their pockets....AKA age 65. But that's not a sellout according to "wave."

 

[Scoot 11]

Guys, we all know how this is going down regardless of what Genitals says. Delta will fold like a cheap suit for a minimal pay raise. Their narrow body captains will make a little less than SWA FOs and all Delta FOs will make less than an Air Force pilot.

Oh really? Can you tell me the powerball numbers? Or do you get most of your information when you hear your superior officers talking when you're bringing them coffee?

I'm using history as my guide. This is a good chance for the industry to take a step forward, but the industry is asking the scrubs to win a big game. So, in other words, prepare to be underwhelmed and disappointed.

Is this the same history that brought the Delta pilots C2k, with the highest pay rates of ANYONE in Us aviation history? Your attempt at humor is as lame as your history knowledge. Keep trying though.

 

[waveflyer]

According to "wave," that's a dodge!
But, to answer you question. YES, their senior pilots sold out their junior pilots in order to deepen their pockets....AKA age 65. But that's not a sellout according to "wave."

JOHNNY DIDN'T RAKE THE LEAVES!!! BUT JOHNNY DIDN'T RAKE THE LEAVES!!!

Dude, IMO- it was a sellout. But check the title of this thread^^^^

Is this thread about how senior swa pilots sold out the junior by lobbying to raise retirement age? Or is this thread about delta's next contract and rumors about scope? ^^^^

Or are you guys so prideful that you'll continue to believe that you haven't been the BIGGEST cause of the race to the bottom with your acceptance and consent to the proliferation of RJs-

Are you capable of staying on topic? Or is your only defense: "you guys sellout too"

If you want to go there- we can- bc neither the type requirement, the history of low pay in lieu of big time profit sharing, or age 65 comes close- doesn't even get within a mile of the damage DALPA and the rest of the legacy unions have done to this profession by outsourcing -

But keep trying to deflect, deflect, deflect.

And ultimately- that's the problem- for every general lee, that has no problem seeing a problem and taking an honest look at it- there are at least two Bill Lumberg's and Scoot's who simply can't

 

[pilotyip]

:bawling:so much for the brotherhood of airline pilots.