Rumor re: NJA domiciles

[xpdriver]

I was in a class about 7 months ago of about 30 people. Although about 20 of those were from Independence, I would say that 28 if not more of the pilots in my class had considerable jet experience as well as pic jet. Seemed like a very experienced group including retired Delta and Northwest. That, however, is only one class so i'm not sure what kind of guys they are hiring now.

PHI ALPLA!!!

 

[SAEflyer]

Phi Alpha, check your pm's

 

[gunfyter]

Hey Gun is that DA-2000 New?

Still got the temporary

 

[RTRHD]

Well Congratulations man. That ought to be a change of pace.

 

[NJApilot]

A "higher percentage of new hires are having trouble" is a comment that doesn't really paint the whole picture.

Never in the history of NJA has there been hiring at these proportions for this long of a period, so it is only to be expected that the number of "issues" we have increases.

If you do the math, and look at the checkride issues for new hires or IOE issues, you will find that they are hardly any worse than in the past, in fact are probably much better.

I can count on on hand the number of new hires since Jan 2006 that have "washed" out.

I agree 100% with what you're saying....but just to clarify, in my previous post I wasn't stating that we've experienced an increased number of pilots who have washed out. Like I said in the post, the information I've received from individuals in the training department (IPs, IOE captains, etc) is that the PERCENTAGE of pilots having difficulty in various stages of the training process has gone up over the last 6 months. The training dept closely tracks the percentage of people requiring additional training, and the figure I've often heard to be the "norm" is somewhere around 15% (of the new hires who need extra training). Apparently this percentage has climbed over the last few months (granted, this may be due to other factors not directly related to the quality of the new hires - for example, it could be a tightening by FSI).

As we all know, it's really hard to wash out here at NetJets - you more or less get 3 attempts to "get it right" before they kick you to the curb. On top of that, FSI is known for being soft on initials.

Yes, as we continue to hire at the level we have over the last 6 months, the number of pilots having problems will clearly rise...but if it's true that the percentage of these pilots is also rising, then I think it's something to keep an eye on.

The recent (and ongoing) improvements to the training process, spearheaded by the Union Training Committee, will improve the quality of the training at NetJets and will also allow for us to better monitor the progress of the new hires as they exit FSI. When these changes fully take form, I think we'll then have a better idea of what type of candidate we're attracting to NJA.

Whatever the case, it sounds like it was all a bad rumor anyway!

 

[WrknStff]

I know some problems folks from the RJ ranks have had and that's doing all your sim flying from the left seat for your type. Some of these guys have been bouncing around the regional ranks for years and years without an upgrade and haven't flown left seat since before they were flight instructors. Not saying that they can't get flying with the other hand but with just four sessions before your type ride in some airplanes, its kind of hard to get the control touch.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I know some problems folks from the RJ ranks have had and that's doing all your sim flying from the left seat for your type. Some of these guys have been bouncing around the regional ranks for years and years without an upgrade and haven't flown left seat since before they were flight instructors. Not saying that they can't get flying with the other hand but with just four sessions before your type ride in some airplanes, its kind of hard to get the control touch.

Why is that?

 

[Wacopilot]

The recent (and ongoing) improvements to the training process, spearheaded by the Union Training Committee, will improve the quality of the training at NetJets and will also allow for us to better monitor the progress of the new hires as they exit FSI. When these changes fully take form, I think we'll then have a better idea of what type of candidate we're attracting to NJA.

Whatever the case, it sounds like it was all a bad rumor anyway!

Maybe the fact that we make out newhires wait 3-6 months before they get in the airplane after FSI is a factor???

Waco

 

[acaTerry]

Frankly, after the vast contract improvements, the domicile issue is now the only one that keeps me from applying there. I hope it changes.

SEE?!! Yet another well qualified (not so much TT but has several tyes by the looks of things), probably good guy to work here that won't. I know more people who I'd love to get on here that won't take it for the very same reason....a shame.

 

[NJApilot]

Maybe the fact that we make out newhires wait 3-6 months before they get in the airplane after FSI is a factor???

Waco

That's a possibility, although it won't be a factor for much longer. Once the new changes to NJA training begin to take effect (within the next couple of months), the typical 3-6 month break before actually flying the plane should (in theory) evaporate. Initial newhires, as well as those who bid to another fleet, will soon go from the sim checkride straight to LOFT (basically like we do now, although the LOFTs will be conducted by NJA instructors - and the sessions themselves will become much more line-oriented). Then, after completion of LOFT and more than likely a couple of weeks off (give or take a few), the trainees will be sent straight to the line to commence IOE. The days of attending 3 days of training in CMH before IOE are coming to a close.

To all of those that complained about the 4-6 month paid vacation they received before starting IOE, your wish is granted!

 

[A-V-8]

I need more TT

I second what SkiandSurf says, if you have the mins get your stuff in now. I put my stuff in last Jan and due to my domicile pref. I am just now getting the interview. If you wait like I did you first domicile choice might fill up or something else and you could wait like me. Best of luck.

I need more time. Will apply at 2500. If I haven't made captian yet I have to go get my ATP. Not cheap on 121 pay. I will do it though.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I need more time. Will apply at 2500. If I haven't made captian yet I have to go get my ATP. Not cheap on 121 pay. I will do it though.

I know of several guys here who have paid for their own ATP because they couldn't upgrade at their last employer.

Good luck to you.

 

[Hogprint]

Just heard this rumor out on the road last week also. Rumors come and go here, but I hope this one pans out.

As for the trouble in training topic, FSI instructor was telling me this six months ago. As posted above, it seems to be the guy that retires off the 67/57 and has issues keeping up with the training pace and the other end of the spectrum, young Maverick wanna-be with bad attitude.

A year ago I had a NJ management type sit in on my oral. He told me that later off the record that he was there mainly to observe the FSI guy. According to him FSI was pushing guys through that then went to the line and had trouble. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[canadflyau]

Maybe the fact that we make out newhires wait 3-6 months before they get in the airplane after FSI is a factor

What is the issue? Backlog in training for certain airplanes? Do you collect a paycheck during that time?

 

[NJA bound]

What is the issue? Backlog in training for certain airplanes? Do you collect a paycheck during that time?

Sure do, $1,780. every two weeks, reserve schedule pay.

 

[RNObased]

That's a possibility, although it won't be a factor for much longer. Once the new changes to NJA training begin to take effect (within the next couple of months), the typical 3-6 month break before actually flying the plane should (in theory) evaporate.

In "theory" is the key sentance here. We will see, I have money that the time off at home will be moved to a different part of the training process. Time will tell.

 

[netjetwife]

A year ago I had a NJ management type sit in on my oral. He told me that later off the record that he was there mainly to observe the FSI guy. According to him FSI was pushing guys through that then went to the line and had trouble. Take it for what it's worth.

I hear NJA is starting to demand accountability...led by the UTC, I've no doubt, and are going to be insisting that they get their money's worth. The new programs are being well received from management and pilots. Kudos to the hard working UTC pilots! Good article in the Compass (emagazine on the board) for those looking for more information.
NJW

 

[skyward80]

Based on what I've read... NJA does not necessarily need to home base a pilot. For pilots that are assigned to a domicile which is not within driving distance, how are they expected to commute to work? In the airlines, jumpseat agreements really help out commuters, but I have no idea how it works for the fractionals. Does the company buy a ticket? Is the pilot expected to move? Is there a commuter clause to help protect commuters?

I'm taking a serious look at the fractionals, and this is something I have NO CLUE about so any info would be appreciated.

Skyward80

 

[gunfyter]

Getting to work is Your problem.

Thats how it works

 

[netjetwife]

Commuting for a frac job is much more difficult and pilots have far less help. The company is placing all new hires into the domicile system now. Only those on property prior to the Nov '05 CBA ratification have home basing. NJA expects pilots to live at the assigned domicile, but realizes some will choose to commute. The pilots are given an advance-notice show time and expected to be at the domicile ready to go --either fly a NJ plane or airline to one--at the appointed time. The only help the commuting pilots receive from the company is a deal that is open to all pilots. On the last day of the tour the company will buy the pilot's ticket to another city (other than the domicile or home-base) and the pilot is charged the difference (if any) in price from what the domicile/home base destination would have cost. Obviously that helps the pilots who flew to the domicile, but not those who drove there.

There are arrangements guaranteed in a LOA that allow pilots in same seat same fleet to swap domiciles and the company must now open up any new domicile opening for bidding before offering it to a new hire. I dislike the domicile system and encourage all those interested in NJA, if not for the domicile issue, to let the company know that was the show-stopper. Perhaps enough negative feedback will force them to rethink what appears to be a system without merit.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your decision-making process.
Netjetwife

PS