Rrj

[jarhead]

FalconJet.....

You and I definately travel with different crowds. EVERYONE I associate and work with are accutley aware of what kind of airplane they fly on, whos brand it is, and even where the final assembly plants are located. I am sure there are a few who are out there in some kind of stupor who get on planes....drugged out hippies, and some geriatric grey haired grandmothers. But, then again, perhaps my experiences and the crowd I travel with see a different scenerio.

 

[Falconjet]

My crowd

Jarhead: Are you trying to say that there is something wrong with my posse of drugged out hippies and geriatric grey haired grandmothers? Man, those are my friends. We're free to move about the country too!

 

[jarhead]

Very good :^)

 

[jarhead]

I guess it's all about observation and situational awareness. Everyone I know when they get into a car or mini-van, knows what make it is. If they don't recognize if it's a Ford, Toyota, or Volvo, can see the logo all over the vehicle. I am just aware of my surroundings,

When you get on a 121 carrier, and are ready to leave, the F/A always introduces you to the safety features of "our Boeing 737, or our "Canadair Regional Jet" Even if you are not listening, the placard in the seat back cushion tells anyone who is bored (and we all are) picks up to read. That placard also identifies the airplane make and model. If I pick up a camera that I am not familiar with, I see right away if its a Nikon, Olympus or Kodak. I don't see how anyone can help not knowing what they are riding in; car or airplane.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

somehow korean carmakers are thriving in the US

I doubt russians will have trouble selling their planes here, esp. considering the fact that everyone knows they were first in space

 

[jarhead]

North Korean Cameras?????

As far as I know, a camera can't kill ya.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Re: FlyBoeingJets

You and I are in agreement on one thing you said in your post. But, in a way, you kind of reinforce my point. Yes, I do definately remember how at one time, anything made in Japan was synonomous with 'junk'. Earlier in this thread, I made the statement that it would be 25 years before I ever set foot in a Russian built airlplane, to allow time for a credible safety record to be established. The greatest engineering in the world, cannot overcome manufacturing shortcuts, inferior materials, faulty welds, and political corruption. The point about Japans quality. That Phoenix took many, many years to rise from the ash heap, before the Lexus was made. As I also said before, name one thing beyond Vodka and caviar, that Americans will buy that comes from Russia?

I see now. You may be right about the 25 years. I think the limiting factor would be Boeing. Boeing would not support the project if it would tarnish their name. I wonder what respected aerospace company will be the first to take the risk?

 

[jarhead]

I don't have all the answers by a long shot, but I can speculate. Not sure Boeing has anything at all to "risk" by assisting the Russians with their engineering expertise. If you consider the International Space Station, Boeing is actually a contractor for a lot of what's going into it. Many problems with that venture, have been brought about by the Russians not holding up their end of the log. Huge delays from Russian made components, many of those delays due to Russia not having the money to get stuff delivered on time.

The other question that pops into my mind, is that if this is such a viable venture, why is Boeing not doing it all; why are the Russians needed at all? How will Boeing be paid? Russia has some big money problems. This whole thing really sounds screwy to me, from a business standpoint. Why is Russia needed at all, if there is a viable market for this Russian RJ project. Could it be, that Boeing recognizes this as well, that this thing "won't fly" (pun intended) Perhaps Boeing has secured some sort of irrevocable letter of credit, and international bank assets backing up payment for milestone incremental payments for services delivered. Then there is no risk to Boeing, they can just take the money and run.

Again, just speculation and questions on my part. Just as I wont stay in a hotel in a floor higher than a fire truck's ladder will reach, I also will not tempt fate by an airplane built by a former soviet block country. I would never buy a car from the former East Germans (the wonderful piece of crap called the Trablat), and I won't fly in an airplane built with factories that turn out the likes of 1950's refrigerators and TV's. Russia is not generally known as producing any quality industrial product. They can stick to Vodka as far as I am concerned.

 

[lowecur]

jarhead

I love to speculate too.

I think BA is in this because the profit margins are much better in Russia than they would be anywhere else. I think they feel that if they are going to get involved in this type a/c it will have to be on a basis where they won't lose a ton of money. The R&D on this size a/c is still enormous, and the profit margins are probably too small to produce it in the US. To develop this type of a/c can cost a billion dollars, so if you split the costs between many different contributors it makes it much more viable.

There is a thread on another board where they are discussing flying in the former Soviet block. Surprisingly there were many posters who enjoyed the flying experience. They mentioned the IL62, IL86, TU134, TU154, TU204, and YAK40's as type of a/c flown. The planes were for the most part comfortable and service was pleasant. Some of the airlines flown were Aeroflot, Ukranian, Saravin, and Samara. I wasn't aware that Aeroflot flys the BA 777. Considering the 1000's of daily flights that still operate in the former Soviet Union, they have done a fairly decent job on the safety issue (although, not up to Western standards).

I have also read threads about US military pilots who have flown the newest Migs and would put them in a performance catagory with our best fighters. The only thing lacking was our sophisticated military avionics and weaponry. Another great engineering success is the largest a/c in the world, the AN-225.

Don't sell the Russians short, BA hasn't.