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RPM increase when cycling the prop? Why??

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All you have to do is look at your MP guage when your engine is shut off, then with the engine running full power take a look again, you lose an inch or two.

I'm not theorizing, I'm just remembering what I learned in college. And you're right, you slow the air down, you maximize the pressure, hasn't this been the point all along?

Here's another example of fluid dynamics (after all, air is a fluid). When a doctor takes the medicine out with the syringe (kind of like an engine cylinder drawing in air), they do it slowly, otherwise you get bubbles. The reason is because the fluid can only move so fast, and why? Again its friction. If you widen the intake on the syringe, you can draw it in faster. The motivating force is the pressure of the fluid vs. the vacuum on the other end, this does not change, what changes is the amount of friction due to the width of the intake. Its a little harder to see with air, because its less dense and thus faster moving.
 
Well, you shouldn't lose anything if the powerplant is properly set up. Granted I haven't flown a recip with MP gauge that wasn't supercharged in a really long time, but I can't remember seeing that. Admitedly I could be wrong. Anyone?

That having been said I would still contend that if you slow down the air inside your intake manifold you would get an increase in MP, not a decrease. And their is one key difference between air(gas) and any liquid, fluids or not: Air(gas) is compressible, liquid is not. So fixed volumes of air are able to squeeze through smaller places than liquids with greater ease, and the kinds of pressures we are dealing with are fractional. What 14.7 PSI? That's really not much pressure considering the volume of space we're moving it through so I doubt you'd see a drop in ambient pressure of almost 4-7% just through that kind of friction. Again, I could be wrong. It's just not consistent with my experience or knowledge of powerplants. And I would contend that if you're giving up "an inch or two" you should have something checked out. Man, that's 1000-2000' of altitude right off the bat. Maybe up to an inch for mechanical wiggle room, but I would be suspicious of much more than that. Of course, all of this is taking airport elevation in to consideration.
 
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I've flown one recently, bear in mind this is a Part 135 operated plane (so the power plant should be "properly set up"): takeoff MP was about 25" at 2500 feet and 23" at 4500 feet.
Man, if I'm the only one reading these forums that has seen this, I'm amazed to say the least.
 
bear in mind this is a Part 135 operated plane (so the power plant should be "properly set up")

Well, I'll leave that one alone.

Otherwise I might be able to wrap my head around those #s if there were some density altitude to consider. Losing 1''/1000' plus whatever you're going to lose for D.A. might add up. A while ago I used to haul cargo in 310s out in the southwest(ELP) and I'll never forget how much I used to love getting to sea level in those things. It was like a whole other machine VS. 3 or 4000' elevations. Especially with 100 degree heat.
 
I was just pointing out the behavior of the MP guage on our 172RG today to one of my new commercial students...

When the engine is not running, it registers the current barometric pressure (well as close as it can, as it doesn't read tenths and hundreths of inches of mercury as accurately). After start at 1000 rpm idle we get about 12-13 inches MP and at a static run up at full rpm (2700 ish) MP is about 27 inches... not even close the 30 inches (30.09 baro @ S.L.) it was before start. So Time builder isn't that far off..
 
Understood....what's the elevtation there?
 
With a good ram air induction setup, not only can you get full ambient pressure at wide open throttle, but a local raceplane actually gets 2-3 inches above ambient.
 
With a good ram air induction setup, not only can you get full ambient pressure at wide open throttle, but a local raceplane actually gets 2-3 inches above ambient.
I was thinking along the same lines last night as I drove home. One of my favorite planes was a 60's model Mooney M20 which had an air filter bypass which not only reduced the drag from the filter, but utilized the Ram Air pressure. You could get an extra 1 or 2" MP in cruise (hence the nickname the "poor man's turbocharger"), but you had to be careful that you were in clean dry air.

I should have mentioned earlier, the biggest culprit in the drag or friction in the intake system is the air filter.
 
Another key point. The intake system we're looking at has no idea what is taking place on the other side of that intake valve in the combustion chamber. It doesn't matter if there's "fire in the hole," or if the prop is windmilling in the breeze or the airplane is diving with the fuel shut off, engine not even running.
If that engine is turning for any reason, the pistons are hopping up and down, and every time one goes down with the intake valve open, it's sucking more air in. If the throttle plate is closed, it's sucking against resistance, creating suction that shows up as low MP; if the throttle is open, it's not blocking the airflow so manifold pressure remains equal to outside ambient (or perhaps an inch less due to unavoidable restrictions in the induction system).
The rule: Manifold pressure depends on ambient pressure, the position of the throttle plate, and the speed at which the pistons are moving up and down. Manifold pressure does not indicate "power," unless other things are taken into account.
For a silly-but-true example, take an engine that is not running, and lift it from sea level to 18,000 feet. If the MP is 29 inches at sea level, it will be about 14.5 inches at 18,000. The change in MP is entirely due to the reduction in ambient pressure at altitude. Did the engine's power output change when the MP went from 29 inches to 14.5 inches? No, of course not — it's zero either way.
Now a real-world example: Assume you're cruising at some low altitude (say 4,000 feet), throttled well back to about 20 inches MP and 2,000 RPM. (Remember, this means the throttle plate is somewhat cocked, restricting induction airflow.) Now reduce the RPM to 1,200 without changing anything else, and you'll see the MP rise sharply. Why? Simple: The ambient pressure hasn't changed; the throttle plate hasn't changed; the only thing that has changed is the speed at which the pistons are pumping the air. Since they are moving much more slowly at the lower RPM, they are not sucking nearly as hard — not creating as much of a vacuum — so the MP goes up, towards ambient pressure. The natural extension of this experiment is to reduce the RPM to zero, when the MP will rise all the way to outside ambient pressure (about 25 inches at 4,000 feet).
In this example, the RPM has been lowered. The pistons are sucking far less air, the speed of the air going through the intake is less and fuel flow is less. This means there is less power being developed, in spite of a much higher MP! You will also see the airspeed drop off sharply, confirmation of "less power."
Conversely, start once again with our example of cruising at 4,000 feet, 20 inches MP and 2,000 RPM. Now run the RPM up to 2,700, leaving everything else unchanged. Now the pistons are pumping much faster, drawing more air in past the (partially open) throttle plate. That creates more suction — a lower pressure in the induction system — which will show as a lower MP. There will be more fuel flow, and you'll be producing more power at lower MP. (This is complicated by prop efficiency, so give me a little room here.)

To sum up manifold pressure increases in the runup when rpm is decreased because the pistons aren't moving up and down as fast thereby creating less suction against the partially closed throttle plate.
Manifold pressure should increase when you check the magnetos for the same above reason- less power being produced due to a less efficient burn of the fuel air mixture.
Manifold pressure initially on the takoff roll will be about an inch below ambient pressure due to imperfections within the intake and filter which somewhate starve the engine. Once you get some speed ram air effect in most airplanes will cause the manifold pressure to increase somewhat. This is also why you should carefully check the manifold pressure gauge during preflight- notice there is no green arc on a manifold pressure gauge indicating what normal takeoff pressure should be( at least in non-turbo engines). Takeoff manifold pressure will vary with ambient atmospheric pressure- read elevation for all practical purposes.
Knowing all this its alaways fun to question you're student when you are flying a twin and ask them "so why does the feathered engine sill registering some manifold pressure?"
 

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