Royal Screwing in LAS

[knelson]

I was getting the plane ready to leave in LAS today at Executive Air Terminal, had ordered coffee, ice, gpu, filed and all that stuff, went in to pay for the fuel and looked at the price. $3.45/gallon. I know LAS is always high as with several other major airports around the country, but I was a little shocked. I asked the lady behind the desk, is our discount on here (as a frequent visitor, they give the generous discount of .30/gallon, note the sarcasm). She said yes it is, and your two nights ramp/parking fees have been waived. I said thank you very much (again, please note the sarcasm) and went on my way.

I have never been one to penny-pinch when flying around multi-million dollar jets for people that could basically buy my life with one days interest on their investments, but I was a little apalled by this one. At what point does the guy that keeps jacking up fuel prices on a twice daily basis finally go "hey, our cost went down $0.20/gallon, let's leave the price were it is for a while."

I have been made aware of contract fuel programs in the past but have never really put too much thought into dealing with one, as we don't often buy much more than courtesy fuel on the road but I think it's now time. I do go several places I can't carry enough fuel to get to and back home, like LAS, so it looks like it's time. Can someone point me in the right direction to a good contract fuel program? I know of Colt International and have heard Universal has a similar program. Thanks in advance for your help! If you use Executive at LAS, I urge you to look at Colt's price first!!!

 

[Alchemy]

Right now, where I work (signature AUS) the price for Jet-A is $3.49/gallon and $3.31/gallon for 100LL. Our competitor next door is 50 cents cheaper on Jet, 21 cents cheaper on 100LL, yet, Signature continues to have plenty of business (granted a lot of it is contract fuel from netjets, flexjets, flight options, and other flight departments which have contracts). I don't like overcharging people for gas, and am curious myself as to why the price of fuel is so high at certain FBO's. I hate having to explain to customers why our fuel is so high, because I honestly don't know.

They (management) tells us it's because we provide "superior customer service" at signature, but I know firsthand as a pilot that our customer service is not worth .50 cents a gallon more in fuel costs, which easily adds up to hundreds of dollars on a typical jet-A burning aircraft.

I can only assume that the people in charge of setting fuel prices for my FBO have determined that they don't need a lot of transient traffic to stay in business and will put the screws to anyone who happens to wander in and ask for a top off. They're screwed even if they don't ask for a top off, come to think of it (did I mention the handling charges which are levied unless you purchase a minimum amount of fuel). I love working the ramp but I hate ripping people off. A shame, but the stockholders/executives aren't in the biz for charity, they're only interested in the bottom line.....

Sure I could be putting my job in jeopardy by saying this, but if they want to punish me for being honest, so be it.

 

[Hawker rider]

Well we fly 135 in a few lears and we have a bunch of contract fuel programs, Offcourse you have to guarantee too take a certain amount of fuel each year, and then you'll even get lower prices. So if you don't fly very much you won't save too much either.

Now, what really helps though is to shop around.. Most of the time you can find a lot cheaper fuel then at the "big" airports, by just going to a smaller airport ( for us we try to always get a 5000' minumum runway which gives us some good options).

As far as what fuelprices are...... It just boggles me that a few miles away from a location the fuel might be $2.- a gallon cheaper... And the prices being so incredibly diverse across the country. It can't cost that much to ship the stuff into the FBO.



Hey, I just fueled for $0.92 a gallon and that was the day after christmass. Now I'm at a place that charges me $3.65 a gallon......like I said it just boggles me that this is allowed.

 

[satpak77]

Good resource

Maybe old news, but if not, here is a good resource for checking fuel prices:

http://www.airnav.com/fuel/

 

[DesertFalcon]

Try Phillips INTO Plane Contract Services... Good prices in general.

DesertFalcon

=======================================

Can someone point me in the right direction to a good contract fuel program? I know of Colt International and have heard Universal has a similar program. Thanks in advance for your help! If you use Executive at LAS, I urge you to look at Colt's price first!!!

 

[sky37d]

A good example is TEB, where Million Air is $3.29 for 100LL, and Signature is $4.00.
At MDW, the handling fees for Signature are substantially higher than Million Air
Don't know how they do it.

 

[Astra Guy]

Due to the disparity in fuel prices I have come to the conclusion that Signature is actually run by Waste MGT. guhrus. Actually Warren Buffet has a huge interest in Signature. Everyone knows he doesn't invest in something less than profitable. NetJets, FSI and USAIG are on the list.

For the best fuel prices check out AVFUEL contract locations. No contractual requirements there. They typically beat COLT, WP, BaseOps, etc.

As for Signature providing superior services I don't think so. Superior services to me means not having to wait in my airplane on a cold, windy day for transport at ORD and DCA for example for a ride. Million Air does a much better job...actually most chains do a much better job.

 

[ShawnC]

Wow, I longer feel bad about $2.00/gal 100LL.

 

[Flying Illini]

As for Signature providing superior services I don't think so.

I agree, just look at DET or BOS.

 

[Rick1128]

Desertfalcon,

The Phillips Interplane contracts are very restricted. Only 121 and a few 135 operators meet the requirements.

The Avfuel contract is quite open and some of the FBOs still offer the points.

 

[Brett Hull]

Desertfalcon,

The Phillips Interplane contracts are very restricted. Only 121 and a few 135 operators meet the requirements.

Just to add a little more to that, I believe that in order to use Phillips Intoplane you must be a freighter or air ambulance.

 

[chperplt]

You were in Las Vegas and it is one busy time a year here. For cheap gas go to North Las Vegas.

 

[FN FAL]

Try the service at the government run airports without FBO's. I had a county worker cuss at me for placing a fuel order once. I now make sure I tanker enough fuel to never have to ask them for nothing. We fly into this airport daily, it is where we lay over.

I'm hoping that the lack of fuel sales leads to a U-Fuel pump with a credit card reader, so I can do it myself.

When they lay off a couple of county workers, then the light will come on.

We also get contract fuel from signature at our base airport, and they treat us like second class citizens.

 

[Alchemy]

Gee, never knew so many people hate signature so much. Wonder how we stay in business.....

 

[Publishers]

Reasons

There are many things that determine fuel prices at any FBO and the least of which is transport or where you are.

Usually the number one thing is the airport authority at the location. The taxes fees etc can make up more than the original price of fuel--well maybe not quite but easily $.25 to $.35.

Signature philosophy is to be on big airports. Take MIA as an example. They really do not want corporate general aviation to land there. The charges to Signature to be there are pretty heavy and Signature was going to make sure they won the bid so they bid high.

The results are high prices for you.

Go to Broward county, and, all things change. Different philosophy, more competition, lower prices, good service for all.

As to contract fuel, these producuts can be effective if you have volume but a call ahead can usually negotiate you a better price at many airports.

 

[SabreFlyR]

There are many, but the three that I use cover most everywhere I go and you can get some pretty decent discounts.

For example: Executive @ LAS is $2.63 for up to 500 gal. Price decreases again at 500 gal.

I use UVAIR from Universal, 800-231-5600

Best Aeronet, 800-687-4691

Colt International, 800-626-0577

 

[Hawker rider]

As to contract fuel, these producuts can be effective if you have volume but a call ahead can usually negotiate you a better price at many airports.

For me this means that IF you can get a lower price by just calling ahead that means that they are for sure overpricing their fuel. And I loose a lot of respect for the people in charge that are willing to lower the price "just for me" what for??? like they don't make a profit with the now quoted "low" price.


good example for you!

COS Colorado Springs. call around and see what the fuel is, and at the airports around it too, you'll be pleasantly surprised too!

examples of decent contract fuels:
Phillips into-plane
Avfuel into plane
Colt
Mariah/associated energy group
AirBP into plane
UV air
Universal

There is none that is always cheaper then the other, it sepends at the location. every location it is different who is the cheapest.

note: these are not intended for 135 passenger carrying operators, and have restrictions on them

 

[starchkr]

If you fly into the same field a lot, try ordering wholesale from the refineries and having one of the FBO's tank it and just charge you a small fee for pumping. For example, we do have a few locations where we buy fuel in the thousands of gallons(8-10) at a time and they keep it in their tanks then charge us around $0.25 per gallon to pump it. This ends up costing us around 1.60-1.90 a gallon and that will never change. Now there are some locations that will not do it for us, but those are the ones we refuse fuel from and just pay the ramp fees, which come out to be less anyway. I don't know how to get them to do this specifically, but you can try starting at the managers for the FBO you visit.

 

[501261]

LAS

For Vegas (LAS) get a Colt international card. www.coltinternational.com Jet A is $2.32 a gallon at Executive.

We have Colt, UVair, Bestaero, AirBP, Phillips, and CAA. I'd say that domestically we end up using Colt or CAA (www.corpaa.org) about 90% of the time when using a "discounter". Of course your mileage may vary depending on where you go.

 

[TaxiDriver]

Can someone point me in the right direction to a good contract fuel program?

The company I work for has a fuel purchase program available to all Part 91 operators. No monthly fees, no purchase minimums. Our fuel department is staffed 24/7 and does all the negotiating for you. Currently there are 125 aircraft on this program with more aircraft joining the program each month.

You tell us where you are flying, we tell you where to fill up and what method of payment will benefit the most cost savings. This program enables you to have the buying power of 125+ aircraft (King Airs, Lears, Gulfstreams, BBJs and others) behind you each time to purchase fuel.

PM me if you are still interested.