RJ's TOO EXPENSIVE????

[Sam Fisher]

That is true. I have a friend who lives half way between Cincinatti and Dayton, and it was less expensive to fly to the West Coast from Dayton through Cincinatti, rather than just one leg from CVG. That is ridiculous, and it probably doesn't help the bottom line. Where do the guys in ATL come up with this stuff?

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

There is far more to revenue management and airline marketing than the average pilot realizes. A lot of what you're talking about has to do with protecting a market. Also, a lot of times it makes more sense to fly a smaller plane on a route that could justify a bigger plane based on loads but not on yield. Thus - they leave behind the leisure customers and maximize load factor based on full fare customers.

Sam

 

[General Lee]

Sam,

All of that may be true, but that really pi$$es off our Medallion level customers. I got an earfull from a first class passenger who lives in CVG (has little choice but to fly Delta for business), and he sometimes has to drive to Dayton from CVG, and then fly back through and onto wherever he is going. He said he was mad as heck, but really had no choice.


Fins,

If you could have scoped Chataqua out of DFW, you would have. It was essential at the time to set some limits becasue we were in the middle of the "RJ explosion" at the time, and now Delta's bottom line is actually being affected from the use of all of those RJs. Yes, I know that our pilot pay is also hurting their bottom line, and that will probably be lowered somewhat, but what has happened to the thousands of our business Medallion customers who don't want to ride on an RJ for 3 hours? Where have they gone? We need to bring back more mainline aircraft (which we are doing now), and fly the ones we have now more each day. The RJs should be used to supplement mainline frequency, be a new route finder, and fly to cities that truely cannot support mainline aircraft. (DFW--DEN or DFW---PHX---there should be enough people in those cities to support some sort of mainline aircraft--each city has more than 2-3 million people) Flying them from DCA to DFW or DFW to SNA is also ridiculous. But, that isn't your fault, it is Marketing's.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sam Fisher]

General,

I'm not saying I like it or it makes sense from a customer standpoint, just giving the facts as I see them.

Sam

 

[General Lee]

Sam,

Your opinion is welcomed by me. I can understand your viewpoint. Delta Express was a bad product ( I flew it for 1 year), but it protected market share against a Southwest invasion. Luckily Song has the correct airplane and a better advertising or marketing stance in Delta's eyes. But, the rest of mainline and the RJs need an overhaul. I know that yeild management is important, but giving up the West Coast now will hurt in the long run. Sometimes you have to compete, rather than retreat--and using RJs that scare away business travelers for the longer flights between large cities that should produce more than 200 seats a day (or 4 RJ flights) is the wrong way to compete. The CASM is better on RJs on longer flights, but then the comfort factor rolls in, and that ususally is very important to the business traveller---and that also includes free upgrades to first class--which cannot really happen on those RJs. There are some routes that the RJs have recently launched that I thought were smart---like ATL--Freeport (to combat Airtran), and DFW--ORD, DTW, and MSP (routes that are either new or that were abandoned by us long ago and might eventually get mainline service). But the DFW--SNA, DCA, ONT, OAK, DEN, PHX flights are sending our customers packing towards comfy AA MD-80s and Frontier A319s etc....And with the low fares from Airtran, Jetblue, etc---you won't make money competing with Jetblue's $59 fares with a 50 seat RJ. I hope marketing sees this someday.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[metrodriver]

I once talked to a guy who lives near DFW and for his business has to go to LAX quite a lot, on AA, a $1700.- ticket in coach! So what does he do? Catch the late evening eagle flight to TUL or OKC, stay in a hotel for $50.- and fly the first flight in the morning back to DFW, connecting to LAX. On the way back he bailes in DFW off course. Cost of this ticket? $800.-!
General, DL needs to put some evening flights to DFW from the west coast. Ever noticed that the last non-stops out of OAK, SEA are at noon? Who has finished their meetings by that time and made it back to the airport? Nobody. So you have to fly on the competition, like AA , or if you don't want to pay their price and don't mind a quick stop in DEN you go with Frontier.

Oh yeah RJ service: AE from DFW to Boise, Idaho! What a waste. Luckily AMR thought the same later and axed this flight

 

[General Lee]

Metrodriver,

I agree, we should add some more flights to the evening bank for business travellers. But, that is all up to marketing, and they obviously want those planes to fly to other places.....

As far as the DFW-Boise route, I thought it was smart. That is where you should put RJs---in new routes between a large city and a mid-sized city or one that has something special----like a nuclear waste site etc...where gov't employees need to fly there on a regular basis and don't care about the price. Look at AA Eagles' recent new flight---Fayettville, AR to LAX on a CR7. That was smart becasue Walmart is based in Fayettville/Rogers/Bentonville, AR---and many businessmen in LA can now fly nonstop without having to get on a Learjet or having to go through hubs. That was a genius move. That is what our RJ fleet should be doing---finding the new routes that could one day become profitable and mainline could slip into. The Boise try was a good one. Our ASA/Comair CR7s (with Leading Edge devices) should be flying from DFW and CVG to Jackson Hole, WY for the Winter--taking rich folks skiing. (Also Vail etc..)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Actually, these short legs into CVG don't make a lot of sense. People drive from Cincinatti to LEX, SDF, and DAY because flights that originate from those locations and connect through CVG often cost a less (customer service tells me up to $200) than if they originated in CVG. So Delta/DCI is getting less money to fly these folks on an extra leg. It's not just Comair and ASA either. Delta mainline has three flights a day between CVG and LEX/SDF. It's a marketing deal that I haven't been able to suss out yet. The yields are in the red on these routes, regardless of CASM.

It's not the family flying somewhere on vacation (low yield) that uses these flights, sure they will drive to save the money. It has been my experience that it is mostly the high yield business travler that uses these routes. Their time is worth more than the lesser cost of renting a car and driving.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

But, they are pi$$ing off all of the businessmen who live in CVG with the difference in fares.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Sleepy,

But, they are pi$$ing off all of the businessmen who live in CVG with the difference in fares.

Bye Bye---General Lee

We love to fly and it shows.