RJDC update (4/4/04) part 1

[ALCOHOLIC]

So your airline growing at others expense.. I thought that is what you wanted. I hope I never hear you bitching about Mesa.

 

[General Lee]

X-ream-me,

I think you should be in the next RAMBO movie. Do you have long hair and big muscles? Can you shoot a big machine gun? Perfect. A one man comando to the end!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Oh my frickin God!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe what I am hearing from some of you RJDC guys. Words like "it's all about me" is the stuff SCABs are made of. Yup, I said it. That is exactly the mentality that caused so many to cross the picket line at Continental back 1983-85. I have to deal with these CAL SCABs almost everday at work. Us CALEX guys (yes I am a "regional" pilot) have learned to recognize behavior that is destructive to the profession because we see it all the time at CAL.

I wish as most of the CALEX pilots do that CAL scopes the ever livin bejesus out of us. In fact, we are trying to help them do it. We understand that the only way to keep the wages up in this profession is to keep the high paying job, not to transfer them to an RJ. Sheesh

Also, it is the Dleta pilots flying. They can protect it as much as they want. DCI only exists to feed Delta. Without a Delta mainline, there will be no DCI. The 50-70 RJ economics do not permit them to operate on their own, just ask ACA.

Think long term folks. I swear that I will kick any one's a s s that threatens my profession .

 

[On Your Six]

Why are Comair pilots paid more than MESA pilots flying the same equipment and the same hours? I still can't understand why Comair and ASA pilots are so confident of their own situations while their parent company is in distress?

Why should Delta continue to grow the flying for ASA or Comair when it can instead outsource more flying to airlines paying MESA level wages like CHQ or Skyway?

Extreme Flyer, explain to me what you would do if you were DAL management - would you continue to expand Comair flying at Comair wages when CHQ or Skyway could do the same for cheaper? A CRJ is a CRJ is a CRJ. I am tired of hearing how Comair and ASA pilots are "entitled" to industry leading regional wages when their parent company is faltering....

By the way, Grinstein does not like RJs - don't expect a lot of growth going forward...

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

Capt Caucasian...


My thoughts exactly...

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

six
it's called contract negotiations. tell me where 'entitled' comes in anywhere.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I think you should be in the next RAMBO movie. Do you have long hair and big muscles? Can you shoot a big machine gun? Perfect. A one man comando to the end!

Private Lee Since the movies are all you know of the military I can see how you think in those terms. Let me guess you probably tell yourself "I could have done that if I had wanted to." If it helps you to feel better about your own cowardice by denigrating and making pittiful attempts at minimizing those who have made that sacrifice, then by all means continue.

AL

So your airline growing at others expense.. I thought that is what you wanted. I hope I never hear you bitching about Mesa.

You won't so chill!

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Do you have long hair and big muscles? Can you shoot a big machine gun?

Why private you looking for a date?

 

[BlackCoffee]

Don't let six bother you. He's still pissed he had to fly the B-1 after the 15.

 

[TWA Dude]

Forgive me if I prefer not to hurl insults at anyone here, but The Big Picture seems to have been lost. This is about Airline Management vs. ALPA. Management usually wins because they ultimately control the jobs. ALPA made big strides in the years before 9/11 but (so far except for DAL) they've been rolled back. IMHO ALPA has completely botched-up the Small Jet issue and the inevitable result is the current in-fighting. I philosophically support the RJDC to the extent that ALPA National needs to be forced to deal with the issue in a way that doesn't exclusively favor the Majors. This appears to create a conflict of interest since the growth of small jets is currently at the expense of mainline jets, but remember that it's Management who chooses to grow the regionals over the majors; not ALPA. ALPA needs to formulate a comprehensive strategy to properly represent both small jet and mainline jets, especially with the EMB170/190s coming on line. When they do there won't be any need for an RJDC or pehaps even Scope clauses. I know it's a lot to ask for but that's why we pay dues to ALPA, isn't it?

Okay, y'all can go back to (inaccurately) calling each other scabs and thieves and ignoring the real enemies.

Dude

 

[gordon24]

Think long term folks. I swear that I will kick any one's a s s that threatens my profession .

Relax Francis....

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Relax Francis....

Reference the smiley face, however you are correct .

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

[ This appears to create a conflict of interest since the growth of small jets is currently at the expense of mainline jets, but remember that it's Management who chooses to grow the regionals over the majors; not ALPA.

Why does management do this.

1. We work for peanuts

2. We do not have great work rules so they can work us to death

3. Very little retirement


Alpa national does not negotiate our contracts. We do it on the local levels. It is nobody's fault buy our own..

 

[TWA Dude]

Alpa national does not negotiate our contracts. We do it on the local levels. It is nobody's fault but our own..

The ALPA administration in Washington exists among many reasons to govern the national programs such as insurance, to provide training to local committee members, and to comprise strategies that benefit the pilot profession as a whole. Is it not ALPA National's business when one ALPA carrier's contract is detrimental to another's and the result is conflict? Would it not benefit everyone to encourage communication that prevents contracts at one carrier to the detriment of another?

Management has done a very good job of getting around restrictive Scope clauses when the RJ's came on line. Had ALPA developed a national strategy local MEC's could've worked together to mitigate the friction. The key here is working together. One need look no further than the all-out war between the APA and Eagle ALPA. Who does it benefit?

Dude

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

AMR management...

 

[JECKEL]

Capt Caucasian,

First of all, let me start by saying that I am not an RJDC supporter, I just play one on TV. No really, all joking aside.

Be carefull with the S C A B word when taking about these RJDC guys. They do wear the ALPA "Battle Star" for walking the line for three months towing the union line, so I certainly don't think that S C A B is even close.

When and where have you been involved in a strike and put it all on the line for the betterment of all. These RJDC guys have done that you see and most of you haven't.

You may disagree with what they are doing now, but you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to S C A B talk.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

You may disagree with what they are doing now, but you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to S C A B talk.

If you noticed, I never actually called anyone a SCAB. What I did say however, is that the "its all about me" phrase is most definately the SCAB mentality. Once again I deal with SCABS on a daily basis and I have learned to spot the traits. We see it all the time CAL and CALEX. The "its all about me" mentality is what is driving CAL down the pooper. It won't be until all the SCABs and those they have infected have retired that the CAL pilot group will become a leader of the industry. Unfortunately, that will not be until after 2020.

Also, I have towed the Union line my fair share. Sure, I have never had to strike, but that does not make me any less of a Trade Unionist.

Frats,
CC
Former IAH First Officer Representative and tireless Union volunteer

 

[JECKEL]

Capt,

I then must only question your ability to pinpoint S C A B traits.

While I'm not a RJCD supporter, I do professionally know those who are and converse with them. They are really the furthest from being S C A B s.

The nuts and bolts, I believe, are that they are trying to fix what the see wrong with with THEIR UNION. Not cross it or tear it down.

You may have S C A B problems where you work, but at Comair there is no question that we do not.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Once again and with brevity: The biggest SCAB trait is the "its all about me" mentality. Every RJDC supporter I know has used this term is some way, shape or form. I also hear it from the CAL strikebreakers, many of whom are my friends as well. And, those folks have since said they regret their past actions.

And again, it is a TRAIT only. However, the biggest one. It is trying to tear down the Profession.

Frats,

 

[michael707767]

In laymans terms, if you wanted 70 seat airplanes at Delta, you should'nt have ever agreed to language in your PWA to allow it to be outsourced. Now its gone and you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Putting artifial numeric restrictions on growth hurts both the company and the pilot groups.

.

actually, we did not allow unlimited 70 seat outsourcing. Our contract allows them to outsource 57 70s seaters, any more need to be flown by DAL pilots. Before you question numeric limits, what would you say if as part of any concessions, we allowed outsourcing on 50 or so 737s? I'm sure would be fine with that.

Also, for the record, nothing, repeat nothing, in the Delta pilot contract prevents Delta from buying and operating any aircraft they want and as many as they want to have. If anyone disagrees with this statement, produce the contract language which says Delta can only have a certain number of RJs.