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RJDC Litigation Update

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InclusiveScope

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
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385
Litigation Update

March 11, 2004



ALPA Defaults on Discovery Obligations, Fails to Produce Thousands of Documents

ALPA has thus far failed to produce thousands of requested documents as part of its ongoing discovery obligations, including those documents detailing its actions toward the ASA and Comair pilots and its attempts to impose restrictions on their livelihoods. Compounding legal matters for ALPA is the union’s apparent reluctance to provide good cause or to furnish specific information detailing when and how they plan to fulfill their legal obligations.

The magnitude of ALPA’s recalcitrance is exhibited by their recent conduct. Under the Court’s approved schedule, thousands of documents were to be produced by January 9th. On January 5th, at a routine administrative meeting with the Court, ALPA gave no indication that it was totally unprepared to begin the imminent production of the requested materials. Then, on January 14th, five days past the deadline, ALPA sent a letter requesting forty-five additional days to respond and further requested that plaintiffs withdraw fourteen requested items.

In response to ALPA’s request for additional time, Plaintiff’s Counsel indicated that an extension of 30 to 35 days would be granted. However, ALPA failed to follow-up on its own request and instead initiated a debate over the pending confidentiality agreement—which has no bearing on the production of thousands of documents that do not warrant such protections. Furthermore, even though the confidentiality agreement was executed last month, ALPA has only managed to produce a small fraction of the anticipated documents. [1][1]

ALPA’s default on their obligations has left Plaintiff’s counsel with no choice but to formally warn ALPA that it risks judicial intervention unless it moves immediately to fulfill its obligations. Furthermore, plaintiffs have demanded that ALPA’s counsel immediately inform plaintiffs of the volume of documents ALPA plans to produce, the expected delivery dates of said information, and the date ALPA expects to complete document production. ALPA has also been formally advised that both Plaintiffs and their attorney are highly experienced in ALPA matters and the underproduction of documents will not be tolerated.

Related Link: http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/discovery_request_by_subject.pdf



ALPA Risks Sanctions

To better understand the nature of ALPA’s default and the possible consequences, suppose a crew-member failed to report for duty, failed to notify the company in advance, failed to provide a valid explanation, and when contacted by crew scheduling, merely stated that they would arrive at work “sometime.” Obviously no employer would tolerate such gross negligence and neither will plaintiffs.

Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP), plaintiffs are entitled to various remedies to compel ALPA to turn over the requested materials and to recoup any legal expenses incurred as a result of ALPA’s non-compliance. In addition to finding itself the subject of a court order, ALPA risks any number of court-imposed sanctions.

Related Link: http://www.house.gov/judiciary/civil2001.pdf



Plaintiffs Submit Written Interrogatories to ALPA

As part of the discovery process, the parties are permitted to submit written questionnaires, called “interrogatories” to the opposing party. The answers to the interrogatories are given under oath and are used to obtain additional information relevant to the case. For example, the following is one of the thirty-eight questions submitted to ALPA:

“State whether Duane Woerth ever told either an assembled group of any persons or ever told any representative of a newspaper, magazine, newsletter, or other medium, that circumstances require that 70-seat equipment be flown by mainline pilots. If so, identify the time, place, and circumstances in which such statement was made, and set forth the actual words of such statement.”



Under the rules, ALPA has thirty days to reply and their responses are due on or about March 17th.

Related Link: http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/interrogatories.pdf



Parties Execute Confidentiality Agreement

On March 1st, ALPA and Plaintiffs entered into a confidentiality agreement that will govern the disclosure of certain information obtained via the discovery process. Such agreements are commonplace and do not affect the admissibility of any documents, but rather the ability of the parties to disclose the covered information outside of the legal process.

Under the terms of the agreement, a party may designate as confidential any information that, “if made public, adversely affects the business, financial, commercial, organizational, employment or privacy interests of the producing party or any other individual.” Likewise, the agreement requires that both parties be circumspect in classifying documents as “confidential.” The agreement also provides mechanisms for challenging a “confidential” classification, up to and including taking any disputes to the Magistrate Judge for resolution.

ALPA’s Recalcitrance Sends Important Message

For years, ALPA’s leadership has maintained that all claims of favoritism and conflicting interests are without merit. However, ALPA’s failure to produce the required documents in a timely manner again suggests that the union’s rhetoric and demagoguery will not square with the demonstrable facts. But while the legal process provides an array of remedies to compel ALPA to uphold its legal responsibilities, all of ALPA’s members must not lose sight of the fact that the union’s leadership apparently desires to withhold the pertinent facts from them as well.

ALPA’s members should pay close attention to how ALPA’s leadership responds to serious questions concerning how they safeguarded the rights of ALPA members, and the motives underlying ALPA’s mainline bargaining practices. For example, has ALPA ever demonstrated that restricting the number of smaller airliners promotes large aircraft growth? How did ALPA’s leadership respond to specific warnings that its version of “job security” clauses would not work? How can ALPA’s officers claim to be upholding their fiduciary obligations to the membership while simultaneously claiming to be “unaware” of the union’s actions or bargaining objectives?

ALPA’s officials have a higher duty to place the interests of the Association above political expediency. As such, our leadership cannot continue to hide the union’s history of miscalculation under layers of management bashing or the vilification of a particular type of airliner. The issues raised by ALPA’s conduct extend into every facet of the union’s existence. While some in ALPA may find the idea of litigation distasteful, if the union’s leadership is reluctant to account for its actions, then all ALPA members have reason to be alarmed.










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1][1] As we go to press, ALPA’s counsel has indicated that more documents will be shipped the week of March 15th.
 
Whatever dude. If the RJDC wins then the regionals can bargain to have more mainline sized aircraft down at the regional level, for regional rates! Yippee!!! Wait, Mesa is doing that next. You should want to try to move up to a Major and get more money and a better lifestyle and keep those planes there. But noooooo. So you have to ask yourself a few questions now:

What will you be doing in 30 years on the golf course? Will you be a player or a caddie? Will you be retired or just plain tired? You may be the tired one, but atleast you flew a 737 at Comair!! Wasn't that fun? Was it worth it? I thought so..........now find my ball in the tall grass!!

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes: ;)
 
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STFU with your RJDC

LTG :D :D
 
Only some are illiterate drunks, and you probably know them. I am sure you are an intelligent person, too bad you can't see the forest through the trees. I sense that when you do tee up you often say "FOUR!" You are really going for "out of bounds" here, and you can't even see that. Why do you want to fly 737s or whatever at Comair, with the lower pay and less than average Major lifestyle package? Oh yeah, now I know why----you are at Comair. You guys are desperate. You are actually trying to bring a higher paying job down to the regionals and transforming it into a lower paying job. Good one. Enjoy it.

Bye Bye---General Lee;) :rolleyes:
 
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RJDC?

I'm a bit confused.

I thought RJDC was actually spelled NAMBLA.

When did you guys rename yourselves?

Musta missed that one.
 
General Lee said:
Why do you want to fly 737s or whatever at Comair, with the lower pay and less than average Major lifestyle package? Oh yeah, now I know why----you are at Comair. You guys are desperate. You are actually trying to bring a higher paying job down to the regionals and transforming it into a lower paying job. Good one. Enjoy it.

Bye Bye---General Lee;) :rolleyes:

To play Devil's Advocate: You've already told the Comair guys over and over they weren't going to get hired anywhere, so they might as well go after bigger airplanes for their own company.

Dante's quote of its better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven comes readily to mind.
 
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20/20 Hindsight

More devil's advocate stuff, from the spilled milk files:

Think of all the angst that could never have had the fertile ground to breed had any/all the mainline pilot groups allowed the little planes on mainline property during the developmental years of small planes feeding big ones.

No bottom feeding, bar-lowering whore contractors stealing WO flying, no Comair/ASA stealing mainline flying, no RJDC, no scope wars, no j4j, no flow thru/flushback, no WHIPSAW (!)-none of that would have ever have been conceived ...just a bunch of airlines where you hire into the right seat of a little plane and retire from the left seat of a big one.

In all the languages of all the world there are no sadder words than "It might have been."
 
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Its funny to listen to these guys. When we (ASA) were taking alot of the -88 routes from mailine, scope was bad....bad scope...bad scope. Now listen to the SAME guys when CHQ or SKW announces a new route that COM/ASA used to do: "we need scope, we need scope!" They can dish it out, but can't take it. Comic relief for me.


-180
:)
 
Excellent points but look at the USAirways situation for guidance. Of all the years from USToo to mainline RJs (pre 9/11) to J4J and on to Mid Atlantic, when have the mainline MECs under the auspice of ALPA, sought out the joint cooperation with their wholly owned regionals? Nah, it looks like ALPA is bound and determined to fly this one right into the ground. Surely the good pilots at Delta are not stupid enough to follow that trajectory.
 
I have a genuinly innocent question (meaning I'm not trying to put down any particular point of view). I read recently that Mesaba's new TA includes limits on growth at Big Sky. I don't recall if Big Sky is union-represented but regardless is such an agreement fair to them?

Dude
 
I would honestly love to hear someone's solution to this little dillema.

Outside of a single seniority list, I dont think one exists.

1. Obliterate Scope? No thanks. We dont need 757s running around $50/hr in the left seat and copilots from Saudi who paid $20,000 for 100 hours in the right.

Besides, every contract has scope in it: Scope defines the work to be performed by the employees and excepts work that the employee group doesn't wish to do. If you remove scope entirely then the whole kit-and-kaboodle can be outsourced at the company's discretion. You need some kind of contractual noose which requires the company to come to its own employees to perform work (and, hopefully, to prevent a whipsaw).

2. Scope number of aircraft: Nope, restricts the company's ability to match capacity with demand.

3. Scope aircraft size: Closer, but unless you can get it accomplished industrywide then someone will always be willing to fly the bigger airplane for less.

4. Scope aircraft type: Yeah right. We've all seen aircraft manufactuers now calling anything from 32 to over 100 seats an "RJ" simply because apparently adding the letters "RJ" to anything makes it pay less.

5. Scope within family brand: Not quite possible since ALPA also represents regionals who have multiple codeshares. Yet another conflict of interest.

So I give up General. How do you propose that you hang on to all of your flying (and hopefully leave the door open for future growth) while at the same time providing the same level of security to regional partners? And, if you're successful, what happens to those companies who are excluded? Can scope be written which protects jobs on both mainline AND regional property without restricting career opportunities on either?

I've sat on both sides of the fence (mainline and RJ) and frankly i'm at a moral crossroads.

On the one hand I hate to see mainline jobs (like mine) outsourced to the lowest bidder.

On the other I hate to see a good product such as the 50 and 70 seat CRJ artificially restricted in growth by contractual language written at another company.

On yet the third hand, I hate to see regionals fighting over the scraps of excluded flying that the major airlines throw down to them without any backing from either the mainline pilot group or ALPA national. Its a self-generated perpetual whipsaw machine.

Somebody clear it up for me. I need the Cliff's Notes version of the RJDC. In ONE SENTENCE explain to me what the goal of the organization is -- and I hope to god it isn't the elimination of scope, because that just doesn't solve the problem as I see it... in fact, it causes more.
 
One More Question

One more question.

A few months ago Cap'n Duane came and spoke to the Comair pilot group. In his remarks Duane mentioned that scope was necessary because every pilot group needed to know what flying it "owned". After that he went on to talk about brand-scope...blah...blah...blah.

During the question/answer session I kept WAITING for someone to ask him the $20,000 dollar question.

"Duane, What flying do WE own?"

But nobody asked it.

I think it is a good question and, if you folks are thinking of something to ask for in 2006, it is the single most important thing that could be gained from a new contract.

I dont care if you have to take a paycut to buy it! OWNERSHIP of at least SOME PERCENTAGE of Delta Connection flying should be priority #1 for the negotiating committee and this pilot group.

If you can't win that one than I dont care if you secure $500/hr rates on the 70 seater, not ONE job is secure.... and my challenge to ALPA in 2006, is to make Job Security Job #1.
 
I'm not sure I could explain it in one sentence, just as you couldn't pose your questions that way. However, first of all, the RJDC is NOT about eliminating scope. Some people who don't understand their goals will tell you that, but who in their right mind would follow such a course? Scope is a very important part of any union contract, and what they are trying to do is change the way it's used, not eliminate it.

Do you think ALPA has a responsability to treat all of it's members the same? Well it does, and the RJDC lawsuit is intended to get the union to follow it's own bylaws and the laws of the country in which we live.

I'm not going to get into all of the specifics, because that has been hashed over numerous times. If you want more detail, just do a search on the rjdc or posts by flydeltasjets or surplus1, and you will hear both sides of the arguement. I hope this helps you, and good luck.
 
Oh, to answer your second question, the Comair negotiators DID ask for scope, and a chance to secure some of the Delta (Connection) flying in their contract. However, the "Comair" management said we can't help you there, you will have to talk to Delta management. Comair's pilot negotiators said, okay, let's talk to them, and ALPA said no, you can't. So, the Comair pilots were not allowed to have scope, that could have saved the Delta pilots a lot of trouble, so what were they to do? Go on strike? They did that. What else could they do?

Of course, the same result could have occured if the Delta pilots would let the Comair pilots get involved with their negotiations, and have input into the scope clause. However, ALPA would not allow this. Alpa would have also tried to get the company to merge the pilot groups, just like American and TWA. But they wouldn't try this. So, what else could the Comair pilots do, but sue the union? All they want is the same treatment any other pilot group would get, which is not being given since someone labeled them a "regional" airline. There is a lot more to this than I can explain at one sitting, but I hope this helps a bit.
 
The RJDC's lawsuit is concerning ALPA's misrepresentation. They just used scope to misrepresent their own union members. The RJDC exists because ALPA union members (DALPA) have negotiated contracts to specifically limit other ALPA union members (CMR/ASA). CHQ is teamsters and Skywest is non-union. It is not hypocritical.
 
I hate to say it, but it is the creation of the RJ and the misuse by management that is the source of everyone's problems.....I say it again.....the source............and the larger planes that management get's us poor saps down at the regionals to fly at our wages, the further the industry is going over a cliff........think about this one also, ok, so we're now flying 737's at Comair, well you desire to go to a major one day, but now the majors are so competive you need to have all the boxes filled.....etc, 121, college degree, military..........all the civilian dudes are basically going to miss the boat, because you won't be able to fill the MIL square...........so you better start looking for a Guard/Reserve job now, because with the current path of the industry it's the only way your going to fill the MIL box..............the only way the industry will turn around is if all the current pilots go into a different career field and there is a shortage...........until then, you better go sign up for wellfare.............it's basic supply and demand....................hmm, that basic concept keeps coming up in so many different aspects of the industry..........


PS...Oops, I almost forgot to put the disclaimer in...............NO, I AM NOT SAYING MILITARY PILOT'S ARE BETTER.......it is just another box that management loves to use.........................so, save your typing yelling at me about the Civ/Mil issue..........
 
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Generally posted:
What will you be doing in 30 years on the golf course? Will you be a player or a caddie? Will you be retired or just plain tired? You may be the tired one, but atleast you flew a 737 at Comair!! Wasn't that fun? Was it worth it? I thought so..........now find my ball in the tall grass!!
Nice!
You boys had better hope that Delta's execs pull their collective heads out of their butts and quick lest your high and mighty self winds up shagging balls out there with the rest of us lowlifes.
 

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