rj fo question

[172driver]

What's it like flying with some of these high time captains who think they're God's gift to aviation, that they paid more dues than you, that they fly like Chuck Yeager, and are as sharp as Einstein?

Examples:

whats it like flyin with some of these new 100,000 dollar pilot mill graduates? i was in fla talking to some dca guys and they acted like they were already hired by delta.the rj seems like a lot of plane for someone coming straight out of a seminole.

While I agree that these academy kids are often times full of themselves, the CRJ and ERJ are not terribly difficult to operate. Its the "headwork" that too many of the low timers do not have.

The pilot mill types vary. Overall, I wish the programs did not exist. I prefer the guys with 121, or cargo, experience. Former Delta, World, Eagle and Piedmont pilots have been the best new hires I have had the pleasure of working with.

A school can not teach experience. The mill types have very little situational awareness due to the fact that they have very little experience.

I find that the captains with this kind of attitude usually can't fly for sh!t and that they have very little situational awareness. I am a fairly humble and quiet guy and try to trust the captain to do his/her job well but there are many out there who have to be coached through an entire 4 day trip. I often wonder how some of these guys would fare single pilot.

By far, the majority of captains out there are excellent pilots, decision makers, and leaders but it sure seems to me that many of the higher time, higher age guys have either lost a lot of skills or become complacent. I'd take a recently upgraded 2500 hr academy grad in the left seat any day over a 25 yr airline captain.

Experience only takes you so far. After you've got 500 hrs in the plane, you fly it as well as anyone. Once you've seen all the airports and weather conditions, you get a pretty good handle on that side of things. After that, it seems to me to be about keeping your head in the game, hand flying once in a while to keep your skills sharp, and earning the respect of your crew by being a competent and likeable captain.

Yes, I am an academy guy. No, I'm not the best pilot on earth and I do make mistakes but I do not EVER have to be continuously babysat through a leg or a trip like many of the captains I have flown with. Experience does not always breed competence and competence can be found with relatively little experience.

 

[jumppilot]

"After you've got 500 hrs in the plane, you fly it as well as anyone. "


Disagree. I'd rather fly with anyone who is close to upgrade (ie: studing their a** of with profiles, procedures and system knowledge) or someone who has 0 hours.

Many pilots, including myself, with 500 hours think they know best and slack.

However, people are different and the above rule isn't steadfast.

 

[JimBo480]

What's it like flying with some of these high time captains who think they're God's gift to aviation, that they paid more dues than you, that they fly like Chuck Yeager, and are as sharp as Einstein?

I wish I could answer your question, but after flying for two years at NWA (before being furloughed) I never came across one of these captains. Lots with high time, several with 20,000 hours in type, most with exceptional flying skills and even a few in Einstein's league.....but none who thought they were God's-gift-to-aviation.

I know a few of these folks are out there, so I assume that the HR department is doing a good job in the screening process. I've been told they can look at the paperwork and determine your qualifications, they call you in for the interview to do a personality check....to see if they would like to set next to you for a 4 day trip.

If you encounter these folks, smile, be gracious and learn what you can from them. Most of these types will end up being a big fish in a small pond, forever limited by their attitude. Whatever you do, don't emulate their behavior or you'll pick up the same limitations.

Having said all of this, I agree with most of what was said by the individual you were quoting. I don't like PFT and there's no substitute for flying time when it comes to building situational awareness. If that automatically makes me a "God's gift to aviation" type pilot, then perhaps the problem isn't with your captain.

Jim, waiting for recall

 

[aviatrix]

Yes, I am an academy guy. Experience does not always breed competence and competence can be found with relatively little experience.

What the heck is an "academy guy?" Sounds kind of lame if you ask me.

No, experience does not always breed competence, but in this industry its the best shot you've got. There's no room for error, and those with little experience have decision-making problems.

 

[bailout]

Its simple.. we have a few of these "class act" captains here. When they start b$tchin about the way you fly simply state "Your controls" and let them fly every leg from then on out. Tell them, yes you are captain and I respect the position, BUT you are not my boss. It completely humiliates even the biggest jerks.

 

[FL000]

...competence can be found with relatively little experience.

That's what everyone with little experience says. Funny, I've never heard anyone with a lot of experience say that.

Anyway, sounds like someone got their feewings hurt.

 

[Flechas]

That's what everyone with little experience says. Funny, I've never heard anyone with a lot of experience say that.

Anyway, sounds like someone got their feewings hurt.

Totally agree with FL000, nothing can replace experience, you have to be there and see it all a few times before you really become good at it. Also, you always think you are really good, but what you dont know is how much you still have to learn. I'm not saying you cant be a good pilot with only a few hours, but it is amazing how much more you learn as you get more experience.
As far as us new guys is concerned, try to learn as much as you can, even from the captains that you think are not good, they for sure have seen a lot more than you. Any new plane can humble you when you least expect it, especially a jet.
Fly safe guys.

Flechas

 

[Flechas]

I should also say that all the captains i have flown with so far have been great. Even the ones that have been in the company for ever.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

There are always going to be pilots like you described (both FOs and Capts), not saying anyone who posted the quotes or repsoneded are, just saying these people are out there. Learn to ignore them, fly by the book, on speed and if they gripe about that, well you win.

You are right competancy doesn't come from experiene, it comes from what you learn in those experiences and how you apply it to later experiences, so on and so on. Low time guys are always going to get a bad rap. Everyone has been there and has had gotten it, call it hazing, call a right of passage, call it paying your dues, call it whatever, it's part of aviation it will never go away and it's not a bad thing. Everyone needs to take a bite of humble pie once and a while and the best place for that first serving is your first 121 job when it all becomes clear YOU DON"T KNOW EVERYTHING!

It's not a smack on the person personnaly, it says nothing about your ability to fly the airplane (I sure hope people can actually fly the airplane) it is simply a statment of facts. Low time guys are new, they have never done it before, YOU HAVE TO LEARN!

Heck, I fly with captains all the time that are asking me, where is Gate 22B? Because they don't fly into CLT a lot and I do. Working as a crew, leaning and relying on each other, and helping each other out is what it's all about. As soon as everyone figures out it's not and ego contest and not a contest of who can point out more things the other guy is doing wrong, these kinds of threads will stop.

Enough of a rant, in the immortal words of someone who isn't famous, "Can't we all just get a long?"

AL

 

[BackSoon05]

Its simple.. we have a few of these "class act" captains here. When they start b$tchin about the way you fly simply state "Your controls" and let them fly every leg from then on out. Tell them, yes you are captain and I respect the position, BUT you are not my boss. It completely humiliates even the biggest jerks.

Sorry guys, but I had to bite on this one.

Holy Crap, you have no clue. If he's bitchin at you, he has a reason. Some are nicer about it than others, some have better CRM skills than others. Upgrade, become a Captain for a while, then go back and take a flight or two in the right seat. Only then will you understand the extra stress that guy over there feels.

I am NOT God's gift to Aviation. I make mistakes, I ask for help. I need a hand every once in a while. After all it is a two pilot operation, right. BUT...if you did that to me, I would get you off of my aircraft at the first opportunity. You WOULD be written up and you would then be doing a carpet dance in the CP's office. And keep in mind, I've NEVER written up a fellow crewmember. I believe what happens up front, stays up front. Any Captain who let you get away with not doing your job...is doing the rest of the company a disservice.