Richard says our fuel campaign is off to a great start

[777_Jackpot]

While I was logging onto travel net I happened to come across the above headline on the delta net page. Does anyone else think it is a little inappropriate for a management group to solicit employee support for tighter regulation of oil speculators, when the only cause/effect relationships are drawn from personal opinions?

 

[MJ42]

While I was logging onto travel net I happened to come across the above headline on the delta net page. Does anyone else think it is a little inappropriate for a management group to solicit employee support for tighter regulation of oil speculators, when the only cause/effect relationships are drawn from personal opinions?

NO! This whole industry is in crisis. When employees jobs are at risk it's managements responsibility to seek answers. Unfortunately airline management has not been proactive, it's nice to see DAL doing something. Whose personal opinions are you talking about, oil speculators?

 

[lear35pilot]

NO! This whole industry is in crisis. When employees jobs are at risk it's managements responsibility to seek answers. Unfortunately airline management has not been proactive, it's nice to see DAL doing something. Whose personal opinions are you talking about, oil speculators?

I second that! Something has to be done for the well being of all. It really wasn't suprising, while watching the news yesterday, to see how many in congress have their money tied up in oil and don't want to give up their gains even if it means at the expense of the common people.

 

[Soverytired]

It probably won't help, but it certainly won't hurt.

If you're against something just because your company is for it, you (and your union) have some real problems.

 

[777_Jackpot]

NO! This whole industry is in crisis. When employees jobs are at risk it's managements responsibility to seek answers. Unfortunately airline management has not been proactive, it's nice to see DAL doing something. Whose personal opinions are you talking about, oil speculators?

Well, I would agree that the industry is in a crisis. That much we do agree on. However, what Anderson is doing is not "seeking" answers. He has voiced his opinion and is suggesting that his employees adopt the same opinion, despite the lack of ANY consensus of the true cause of high oil prices.

I don't fault him for having an opinion, but I do not feel that it is his place to make it Delta's official position, nor suggest that his employees make it their positions.

 

[777_Jackpot]

If you're against something just because your company is for it, you (and your union) have some real problems.

Please explain what that means.

 

[JumpersAway]

He isn't forcing people to sign the petition, he's merely making it available to grow a grass roots effort. I applaud his initiative.

ALPA is also taking charge of the matter. Several reps from Herndon have been beating the drums to draw attention to this. Hopefully this draws some attention to one of the three pieces of legislation that is being passed around the House and Senate.

 

[777_Jackpot]

He isn't forcing people to sign the petition, he's merely making it available to grow a grass roots effort. I applaud his initiative.

ALPA is also taking charge of the matter. Several reps from Herndon have been beating the drums to draw attention to this. Hopefully this draws some attention to one of the three pieces of legislation that is being passed around the House and Senate.

Well I guess that is pretty much par for the course. Use the old "I don't have a clue what is actually wrong, but I am going to do something" strategy. Excellent use of resources.

 

[MJ42]

Well I guess that is pretty much par for the course. Use the old "I don't have a clue what is actually wrong, but I am going to do something" strategy. Excellent use of resources.

Seems to me DAL and NWA management do understand what is going on...week dollar, oil speculators, turmoil in oil producing countries and not drilling at home. They're being proactive and asking for employees to help. If you don't agree with the letter then don't send it, but it is an attempt to get congress to listen to thousands of airline employees who agree with the letter and want action yesterday!

 

[JumpersAway]

Well I guess that is pretty much par for the course. Use the old "I don't have a clue what is actually wrong, but I am going to do something" strategy. Excellent use of resources.

When you say it's "par for the course", are you referring to a group of over paid politicians that barely work while collecting thousands in cash from special interest groups and lobbyists? All this while putting personal interests in front of patriotism and duty to the American tax payer?

 

[777_Jackpot]

Seems to me DAL and NWA management do understand what is going on...week dollar, oil speculators, turmoil in oil producing countries and not drilling at home. They're being proactive and asking for employees to help. If you don't agree with the letter then don't send it, but it is an attempt to get congress to listen to thousands of airline employees who agree with the letter and want action yesterday!

First, they have only raised concerns with market speculation. The very fact that Anderson believes this single variable is responsible for current prices is a evidence that he DOESN'T understand the situation. Second, would they be equally justified if they suggested to employees which presidential candidate to vote for if the candidate voiced similar ideas regarding speculation?

 

[MJ42]

First, they have only raised concerns with market speculation. The very fact that Anderson believes this single variable is responsible for current prices is a evidence that he DOESN'T understand the situation. Second, would they be equally justified if they suggested to employees which presidential candidate to vote for if the candidate voiced similar ideas regarding speculation?

President to vote for? A President does not have a DAILY impact on the operation of an airline like oil does. You still really haven't explained why you are so against a decision by an Airline leader to ask employees to support his effort to help an airline survive a difficult time during an industry crisis.

Single variable? I think RA is way smarter and better informed on this subject then you seem to want to admit. I listed 4 of the many factors, I'm sure I could list many other reasons as well as a few theories. I'm sure RA doesn't think a single variable caused the rapid rise in oil prices. Like I said, at least RA and Delta are making an attempt to be proactive both on an internal and external level. Why do you have a problem? If you don't agree, don't send the letter.

 

[777_Jackpot]

I'm sure RA doesn't think a single variable caused the rapid rise in oil prices. Like I said, at least RA and Delta are making an attempt to be proactive both on an internal and external level. Why do you have a problem? If you don't agree, don't send the letter.

Did you read the memo? "You and other Delta, Comair and Northwest Airlines employees have the chance to let your voices be heard about run-away speculation in the oil trading markets that is driving up prices" (the first line of his memo). What part of that sounds as if he believes there are multiple major factors driving the price of oil?

 

[AC560]

For every person speculating the price will go up, somebody has to speculate the price will go down.

What blaming the speculator is about is finding a victim it is the oldest form of politics. Something bad happens we need somebody to blame. Rally the people into believing that what really is their problem is something other then what it really is and the next thing you know, you own Austria. Villains are political gold.

Increase production, reduce demand, and strengthen the dollar and oil prices will go down.

 

[Freeze_gopher]

777,

It is oil speculation. The other variables don't begin to explain the current price of oil. I'll admit that this is surprising from management, but it's not a bad thing. The commodities futures modernization act has to be changed. The rules regarding energy futures contracts must be changed. A big voice like Delta's is a good start.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Once again, Anderson is placing blame with the wrong party.....He and other airline CEOs blamed general aviation for all of their problems also....Easy to point fingers....

The oil runup is being used by speculators....but it isn't caused by speculators....Where was the outcry with real estate speculators and dot.com speculators....Speculators are gambling on the future.....In fact fuel hedging is a form of speculation....

Big business likes to play both sides of the aisle....

 

[Superpilot92]

Demand hasnt gone up over 100% in a year, it IS speculation. Sure supply and demand plays a part in it but you get rid of speculation and oil will go down at least $30-50 a barrel.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Demand hasnt gone up over 100% in a year, it IS speculation. Sure supply and demand plays a part in it but you get rid of speculation and oil will go down at least $30-50 a barrel.

1. How do you "get rid of speculators"?

2. Did you complain about speculators when they ran up real estate prices beyond "resonable"?

3. Is any speculation OK?

4. If we got serious about being energy independent, what do you think that would do to the speculators?

 

[Freeze_gopher]

It isn't "Speculators" it is a certain type of speculation. Real estate isn't the same concept but, yes it is the same mind set. Countrywide home loans wasn't handing out mortgages to everyone with a pulse because they thought it would be fun. They did it because huge banks like Bear Stearns bought huge numbers of these mortgages securitized them and sold them as debt investments. So, there was no exposure to risk for countrywide. The kicker is they new that what made these investments appealing was unsustainable...subprime mortgages (thats where the above average return came from).
Why does the real estate argument not hold water? Go out and buy a housing futures contract. Have you heard of the commodities futures modernization act? How about the InterContinental Exchange? Huge banks (Goldman Sachs is a good example) buy enormous positions in oil futures, and then hold these contract out of the market. These positions cost them between 5% and 7% of the actual value of the contract. What this does is artificially limit the supply of oil available on the market, and it drives up the price. This takes place because the commodities futures modernization act created a loophole that allows these investment banks, hedge funds etc to trade in a highly unregulated market. I would say that illegal and highly unethical practices like wash sales are going to be proven common practice.
Speculation is designed to mitigate price fluctuations, it doesn't work here because these companies have no intention of taking delivery of the oil. (hence it is not similar to airline fuel hedges) This is pure manipulation, these examples are proof that the invisible hand is choking our economy to death.

 

[Soverytired]

Please explain what that means.

Sure.

Knee-jerk opposition to anything your management proposes simply because they proposed it is not a recipe for success. It's not particularly mature, either, and it most certainly makes a management team think "Why bother trying to work with those a$$holes . . .they'll just fight us anyway".

What could possibly be wrong with management suggesting that employees drop a line to their congressmen asking for some action on fuel prices? It's voluntary, it's very important to the industry, it costs nothing .. . . but oh wait . . management proposed it, so we'd better find something wrong with it.