Rich P-F-T ad

[bobbysamd]

Anyone see the ad on page 73 of the March Flying? Some outfit called TAB Express, www.tabexpress.com, is running this "ad."

"Men & Women WANTED to Supply US Airline Pilot Shortage" "Airline First Officer Starting Positions Are Now Available for Zero Time to 500 hour Pilots and Pilots with over 1000 hours. (Ages 21-50)." "Express Direct First Officers are the Standard by which Airline Applicants are now measured."

C'mon, gimme a break!

I've just started to read aviation magazines again, so maybe this place has been advertising for a while. But it's the same malarkey I saw in pilot magazines ten years ago. First of all, and especially these days, there is no pilot shortage. I'm sure the furloughees who read the board will vouch for that.

I'm pushing 51; if I were to go back to flying would I have to hurry with this course or not be accepted by this "school?" I have over 4500 hours; am I overqualified?

Given the times we're in, I couldn't help but to find this bit of reading to be amusing. I'd just hope no one is taken in by this ad.

 

[Fr8Dog]

Well I guess I wouldn't be accecpted either since I've got over a year til I'm 21. Darn that really sucks I wish I could pay them money to get a "real job" and be measured by the same standards that other airline applicants are measured. Give me a f*&@ing break.

 

[Wiggums]

Now that I work at a company that prints one of those full page color ads in every flying rag I can tell you that they do work. They work quite well. Where would aviation be without the suckers?

bobbysamd: You worked at FSI. Its not like their ad is much better.

 

[wildbill]

P.T. Barnum would be proud of that company. Of course some how AEPS is involved...

 

[bobbysamd]

FSI

FSI's ads aren't as extreme as the one I found. The web page, at www.flightsafetyacademy.com, does show a pic of a regional FO type in front of what appears to be an RJ. The implication is clear. However, there's nothing in the ad about "First Officers being the Industry Standard."

Look at this page, http://www.tabexpress.com/welcome/welcome.htm . Then click on Career Opportunities. Quote: "Tab Express International exists to provide experienced "Airline First Officers pilots IOE ready" to the Airline industry." I realize I'm taking a quote out of context, but the message is clear, to me, anyway. P-F-T. I mean, geez!

 

[jaybird]

if you do a search under low time training or something like that. you will find a thread about tabexpress. i posted the same exact comment as bobbysamd. it's total bs. if they weren't crooks they would have the decency to change the ad. it's not that hard to change an ad either.

 

[ifly4food]

Stupid, but not PFT

Just for the record, I'd like to point out that this is a cheezy scam, but not really PFT. Everybody pays for thier ratings one way or another (unless you fly military). This is just an expensive (and stupid) way to get your ratings.

PFT is when you get hired by an airline, and they make you pay for your airline training. Let's not confuse the issue with broad interpretations of what PFT really is.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

Wiggums / Bobbysamd

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to add my 0.02 on FSI. The guy that you see in the add from Bobby's post is a very old ad. In recent issues of Flying, however, the add with the ASA guy in the terminal with an ASA RJ outside is legit. We were both at Vero together... after completing our training; ASA got into bed with FSI and he wrote the big check to toss the dice and successfully completed ASA training and is flying with them in the RJ. I choose not to cough up any more money( if you washed out the money was not refunded ), was listening to my heart as my girlfriend was back home, and am instructing at the FBO.

People need to do their homework and research schools, talk to gratuates, and check their placement departments. FSI does a first rate job in training, but ads are how you read into them. Consider the source and their message. It is, after all, a business.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

talk to the 'graduates' too. <grin>

 

[na265]

Bobby, this is something I have wondered about for the last few months. This is truely false advertising. How can these schools bring in students with this promise of a job interview with AE or COEX,(and others) when these Co's have pilots that are laid off? I spend many days out in FL with my Corp job and have seen a reduction in flying(seems that way to me) from the schools like ATA and FSI. Talking to some CFI's I have met, they have all said the job picture is grim. Seems like dirt bags who will make a buck at anyones expense. BTW, I fly with a guy who worked for one of these places. He said these "students" would get 100hrs in a 90 King Air, 100hrs in a 200 sim, and paid tens of thousands of dollars for this training. It just seems wrong.

 

[bobbysamd]

Caveat Emptor

Perhaps some of you have read about my travails from ten years ago. P-F-T started up during the last war and recession. I wanted a regional job desperately and I was getting nowhere. But I wanted it on my terms. Not only did I view these programs as scams, I wanted to be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I was hired on my quals.

Call it freedom of speech. My first thought was Flying should not accept these ads. But that would be wrong. Let the buyer beware. It's only advertising, abeit rich and obnoxious, and offensive to most professional pilots (and a great topic for discussion on the board ).

A1FlyBoy is dead on regarding FSI's training and what you read into ads. I would just add that one of my former students at FSI was featured on an on-line ad a couple of years ago. I can vouch for this gentleman as being an excellent pilot, student, and person.

 

[Wiggums]

Let me clarify...

Yes, schools like FSI and the one I work at will get you to regional through their bridge programs, so their advertising is basically legit. Here's the problem I see with most of the flight school advertising in Flying magazine. The ads are designed to give the reader the impression that this particular school is the best school to go to in order to become an airline pilot. Now that's all right, maybe it's even true. The sad part is that what happens is you get a bunch of starry eyed suckers that show up for training, however, they end up washing out because they'll never be able to handle anything more advanced then a 180hp single. Bobbysamd: Yes, FSI makes people sucessful, but I'll bet I can find one person from any school that "made it". What percentage of students that started at FSI made it through the whole FSI program and then went to an airline? My school gets people to airlines, but the ratio of people that get placed compared to how many start is low.

Now I'm not advocating that anything be changed. The more students my company signs up the more money it will make, and more money and hours to be shared out to the instructors. However, there are people at these schools that have no business being near airplanes because they didn't know that they were getting into.

 

[bobbysamd]

Wiggums & IFly

Fair comments. Look at it from this point of view. There are plenty of people who start at a school and complete the program, but, for whatever reason, their aviation careers end at the same place they started - at the same school or airport.

Sadly, it happens. Don't forget the old adage. There are pilots who are hired and pilots who aren't hired. You don't hear much about the pilots who aren't hired.

IFly is correct. But look at the ad on the webpage with the swell-looking AA and American Eagle logos, and look at the map with the "route" structure. Then click onto their "newsletter," at http://www.tabexpress.com/newsletter_01_02.htm . It does sound very much that you're buying your way into a job.

 

[Snoop]

Heyyyyy.....

If anyone wants, send me $500 and I will gladly call them an airline pilot, and even tell my friends about them.. Any takers???

 

[Timebuilder]

Ifly posted a definition of PFT above. He left out an important point which draws the difference between taking flight lessons (a very wide definition of "paying for training") and what tab and gulf are doing.

I think this is a better definition: if there is a paying passenger or paid freight on board the aircraft, and you are paying someone to allow you to act as a crew member on that aircraft, that is PFT. In essence, you are "buying" a job with that organization. Contrast this with the way employment works, where you are paid by the operator for providing a valuable service to his company. That is a job.

 

[Wiggums]

Good points bobby, except the stupidest part of TabExpress is after you've spent over 60k, you haven't bought a job, just your tickets and 100 hours of turboprop time. If your gonna buy a job you have to go to a company that sells them. I wonder how their deal is going with AE while they have pilots on the street.

The best laugh is the "Airline Pre-Job Prep Course". It's supposedly specially requested by the AE New Hire Program, and for 18k you'll get airline groundschool and 25 hours of King Air time.

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks, wiggums. If there is no freight or paying passengers, then Tab is just an overpriced promise mill.

 

[bobbysamd]

TAB Express

Guys:

It is hilarious, in a sick and insulting way. That's why I posted this in the first place. I would hope no one would pick up the "tab" for Tab.

I like Timebuilder's quip about this place being an overpriced promise mill.

 

[stingray]

I agree with bobby about this place, being that i live done here in FL seen them, been to thier home airport with my current job (frac pilot), and have seen the operation its a ma&pa outfit with some wornout C-90's. I would spend your money elsewhere.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

American Flyers CFI-A & I

While flipping through the March issue of Flying Magazine I saw an add pubbing American Flyers "CFI Academy Program". "BOTH INSTRUCTOR LICENSES IN ONLY 30 DAYS!!!" $2495.00

Hmm... must be ONLY for those 40 hour Private Pilot ACES.