Returning to Fying.

[hokieflyer]

... or here:

http://www.squawkident.com/livefeed.html

 

[Timebuilder]

Aero99-

Apparently, the system is down at the PHL website. When it works, you see webcam video and hear the tower.

 

[aero99]

Gotcha.

Found a link to DFW....downloading Realone player now....would have thought my XP would have had that already....that was the problem.

thanks again.


http://www.aea200.ea.faa.gov/ea01/atc.htm

has DFW, miami, Denver, Chicago etc if anyone else is interested.

 

[WhiskeyTango]

Ok you guys, by older gentleman, I meant older than the other 4 instructors I've flown with at various times in my life. I'll take the wisdom and the calm of a 55 year old guy over the cockiness of a 25 year old guy any day of the week.

Skydiverdriver, it's neat that you liked instructing. From where I sit now, though, it doesn't sound that appealing and I'm not sure why. Maybe because the student gets to have all the fun? Maybe because I feel like I won't be learning when there is still plenty to learn? If I get that far, I see it as a stepping stone.

I meantime, I have bigger fish to fry, namely my crosscountry work. Actually, next couple of flights will be solo to work proficiency on s-turns, slow-flight, stalls, steep turns, etc, next dual time will be the duall CC. Instructor is also on my ass to get the written out of the way. I feel like I am sort of hapharzardly preparing for it, but I'm using the Internet tests as a baseline. All of that is enough to preoccupy me without worrying about a paycut.

Flying 2 or 3 times per week right now, so I could be done in a couple of months if all goes well.

Re: The career considerations, I'm surprised some of you advised 31 is a little late, but I can see where that might be the case. Heck, I don't even have any kids yet. The wife is an engineer too, and we do ok, so I'll continue to fund the hours myself so long as I enjoy it and just watch for the off chance that something will come up.

I've seen the webcasts and sometimes listen to DFW. I'll check out the others. I'm also looking for any tapes you suggest that I can listen to while on my 2 hours of commuting.


Thank you again for all of your advice.

 

[bobbysamd]

Private written

Do yourself a favor and get the written out of the way. Even if you just watch John and Martha or memorize the ASA book you'll gain knowledge that'll help your flying.

I remember when I was working on my Private I was flying and was having a great time. I was getting near the end and I had not taken the written. My instructor forbade me from flying until I had taken the written. It might have set me back a bit.

Once again, good luck with your training and plans.

 

[rudedog]

[Skydiverdriver, it's neat that you liked instructing. From where I sit now, though, it doesn't sound that appealing and I'm not sure why. Maybe because the student gets to have all the fun? Maybe because I feel like I won't be learning when there is still plenty to learn? If I get that far, I see it as a stepping stone. ]

WhiskeyTango,

Don't knock it 'till you try it. It wasn't until I started instructing that I realized I didn't know $h!+ about flying. Believe it or not, the "license to learn" mantra is 100% right on the money. You'll learn 10 times more and have 20 times the fun once you move into the right seat, I guarantee. The stress of getting the "ticket" is gone and through teaching others you'll really learn how it all works. Plus you can fly on weekends or after work while making a few bucks and letting someone else pay for the plane!

Rudedog

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructing

Rudedog is right on. Don't knock instructing until you've tried it. I realize that with my 3500 instructor hours I speak with a bias, but after you earn the certificate and start working you will be surprised beyond belief how much about flying you will learn, how much fun you will have and how satisfying it will be. I was proud every time I soloed a student or every time a student passed a practical. Especially the latter. It was feedback to me that I had acquired knowledge and understood it well enough to transfer it to others.

The4 CFI certificate is a valuable credential. Airlines like to see applicants who have their CFI certificates and who have at least some flight time instructing. Another point is some regionals hire low-time pilots with CFIs for their training departments. It is a foot in the door to a flight officer position. You may need a connection or be enrolled in an internship program to get one of those jobs.

 

[WhiskeyTango]

I'll trust you guys on that. It certainly seems like a good way to just get hours for sure. I'm not clear how I learn more while I am teaching, presumably by studying more so as to be a better instructor. I've always taken pride in teaching things to new engineers, hopefully those communication skills will translate.

Today's flight was cancelled due to wx here in Indiana. So, I worked some MS Sim time studying and practicing VOR navigation. I figure some familiarity with that will come in handy as I start my XC work in a few flights. Flew from Kokomo to Indy and back. First time I've really put it all together. It's daunting all I have to learn (and all the money I have to spend ). Scheduled for saturday now.

I also joined aopa as you all recommended and picked up a copy of their student magazine today. Looks like the Usenet aviation groups have some interesting discussions as well.

Thanks again for your time. I'll keep you posted in my progress.

 

[jaybird]

You don't even begin to learn till you instruct and thats the truth. I thought I knew everything after I got my commercial. Not even close. It's amazing how much you learn in your first few hundred hours of instructing. Things become much clearer.

Oh yeah, not all 25 year olds are cocky either.

 

[WhiskeyTango]

How did you learn once you were a certified instructor? What sorts of things did you learn?


"Oh yeah, not all 25 year olds are cocky either"

And not all 55 year-olds are wise and calm. Agreed.

 

[Timebuilder]

What do you learn by instructing? Well, I haven't had my coffee yet, but here goes:

1) You re-learn everything. You needed a refresher anyway. You are learning.

2) Teaching the material to a variety of people presents you with different learning styles, sometimes very different from your own, and you must adjust your approach for this student variation. You learn to come up with clear, concise explanations and examples. You are learning.

3) You are asked tough questions about the material that never occurred to you. In reaching deep down to enlighten a curious student, you find insights that reinforce your own understanding. You are learning.

To me, these are the basic three points that are the most important, and when I am fully awake more can be added. I learned in martial arts that you reach a higher level of understanding when you teach something. You learn about a hold when being held, and you learn about a throw when being thrown (the way of the Uke).

To me, like most of us, it is initially surprising when we realize during that first 100 hours of teaching that we are learning while we teach.

I think that you may be surprised, too.

 

[bobbysamd]

Learning while Instructing

Jaybird is right on. The things you learned for your Commercial do solidify when you begin instructing. Moreover, an old axiom is if you want to learn a subject, teach it. When you study an area of operation in the depth you need to explain it, you see nuances in it that you never saw when you were a student. Then, demonstrating it while verbalizing it reinforces the idea. Also, as an instructor, you learn to pick up on your students' errors and you give them help with correcting those errors. You learn from that. Your flying improves as you give more and more demonstrations.

Another thing is your students will always have questions. Most of which you'll be able to answer. Others you won't be able to answer immediately. You should always tell them that you don't know but you will get back to them with an answer. At that point, you look it up. You learn from that. In those instances, learning is purposeful.

You learn plenty as an instrument instructor. You gain experience in the IFR environment when you take your students out to shoot approaches and especially on the IFR cross-country. At that point your students will be flying but as you supervise them you can absorb the IFR environment.

Finally, you will learn a bunch when you send your students for checkrides. The feedback they bring back from examiners is a tremendous learning experience.

I can tell you where this all pays off is if you take a written exam when interviewing for a commuter. Notwithstanding the fact that regional airlines seem to like at least some instructing experience, I had heard stories about how people did poorly on these writtens or blew them altogether. I remember taking a written when I interviewed at American Eagle. I knew everything on that exam except for the ATR-42 performance chart, which I had never seen before. I figured it out easily enough. It was because the questions with which I was confronted were those with which I was confronted as a flight instructor.

 

[jaybird]

"And not all 55 year-olds are wise and calm."

After I went to bed I realized I should've added that too.

"How did you learn once you were a certified instructor? What sorts of things did you learn?"

It's kinda hard to explain. Obviously when you teach something you retain the info much better. That becomes very important in an interview when asked all sorts of questions about flying. You will learn the limits of an aircraft and your own personal limits also. Repeating maneuvers over and over again will show you what the aircraft can handle.

Since you have a degree other than aviation related I'm guessing you have no CRM experience. Being a CFI will be your first taste of CRM. You will not always get along with all of your students, but in the cockpit you must put all differances aside to get the job done.

Sure, many things come from experience, but you just dont get an experience like instructing going straight to a regoinal or charter job. Don't get me wrong though, I would've certainly passed on the instructing thing to go right to ASA at 400 hours, but I'm glad I have the experience now. Instructing well, it's not for everyone thats for sure. If you don't want to do it then don't, it will just make it worse for your student and you. There are some days when after my 5th lap in the hold and the student still doesn't get it, that I just want to jump out of the airplane (at altitude). However, when that student finally does pick it up or when your student finally lands the airplane without you touching anything I think it makes it all worth it.

Good Luck