Rest requirements / duty time history of...

[aland504]

Hey everyone, I am writing a paper for college about rest and duty time regs and was wondering if anyone knew of website that has a good history on how the rules came to be? I have looked and done research but am not satisfied with what all I have found. I know there were changes in 1985 and other details but what I am really looking to find is did the reduced rest idea come from airline lobbyist or just the FAA came up with that? Basically who was pushing for the idea of 8 hours of rest and thinking it was ok...? I guess on the same topic where did the 16 hour rule come from too? Thanks for any advice

 

[densoo]

Eight hours rest was pushed by the airlines to increase the productivity and utilization of pilot labor to reduce costs, at the expense of safety. This is very same reason the White House is holding up the release of the new FAA rest rules, because costs too much. Apparently, the Buffalo crash wasn't expensive enough.

The 16-hour rule came from this accident, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_1420, due to what NTSB said was partially caused by "impaired performance resulting from fatigue."

And resulted in the Whitlow Rule here, http://www2.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=422

 

[pilotyip]

Do a study on what he NTSB proposed in the early 90's about controlled napping in the cockpit. It is one of the best fatigue fighters. It was killed by the Administration because the american public would not accept legal sleeping on the job. So we continue our illegal sleeping on the job. Reminds me of my first trip after IOE, 1978 TransAmerican L-188 F/O coming out of the Emery sort at KDAY at 0200. We level off and the CA looks at me and says, "Why don't you kick back and get some rest" I answered "Oh no sir, my job to be fully alert to the safety of flight at all times" (or something stupid like that). He looks at his feet and shakes his head and says "You know I am gunna catch some rest on the next leg, and I won't rest well if I think you might not be alert" "If you am not rested I am a grumpy son-of -a-bitch, and you don't want to be around me when I am grumpy" "Now about about you get some rest" I pretended to rest, I was too excited about being an airline pilot. That did not last long, the not resting part, I still loved the airline pilot part. There is no way anyone who lives on their days off on a 7AM to 11PM wake cycle with their family, can now pick up three night of 11PM to 7AM flying and not be exhausted.

 

[Flyby1206]

Also wasnt there a proposed change to the flight time/duty time regs in the mid 1990's that just sat on the books for a decade without ever getting passed? Im worried the same thing will happen with this most recent attempt at change.

 

[aland504]

Thanks for the replies, I am definitely going to use some of that info in my paper! I appreciate it.

 

[waveflyer]

Please write how modern U.S. Airline pilots disenfranchise themselves politically. 70% are hard core republicans (no, not 94% like you all think), while also being hard core union members. Airline pilots, however, are enemy #1 to republicans= the highly paid union worker always wanting something for nothing. Choke the golden goose, etc. Republicans don't pursue pilot issues bc they don't believe in unions, and Democrats don't pursue pilot issues bc they know most pilots not only don't vote for them, but loudly and actively work against them.

So rest rules sit on the sidelines with no one who has any motivation to move them forward in the process. It's the one bipartisan emotion on Capitol hill- "Airline pilots, screw those a$$holes".

Thx tea party.
:-/

We need to get smarter politically and realize how much of our careers are governed on capitol hill. Either start voting Dem, or convince republicans to make an exception and support our unions. But the status quo is ridiculously dumb and the true source of the race to the bottom.

 

[JAFI]

Have you looked at the 1985 - Notice of Proposed Rulemaking - to get some insight to "WHY" the FAA said the rule was proposed in 1985?

 

[pilotyip]

Thx tea party..

Have you joined also?

 

[ThreeGreens]

Do a study on what he NTSB proposed in the early 90's about controlled napping in the cockpit. It is one of the best fatigue fighters. It was killed by the Administration because the american public would not accept legal sleeping on the job.

You are absolutely right !!!
I flew for a carrier overseas where this was approved. We had an alarm clock in the cockpit as a backup. Worked great and did not feel the fatigue as much as I do now. (maybe i am just getting older).
Imagine the media... "pilots taking naps on the job !!!".
It is all a matter of money and politics, forget the safety.

 

[ThreeGreens]

Please write how modern U.S. Airline pilots disenfranchise themselves politically. 70% are hard core republicans (no, not 94% like you all think), while also being hard core union members. Airline pilots, however, are enemy #1 to republicans= the highly paid union worker always wanting something for nothing. Choke the golden goose, etc. Republicans don't pursue pilot issues bc they don't believe in unions, and Democrats don't pursue pilot issues bc they know most pilots not only don't vote for them, but loudly and actively work against them.

So rest rules sit on the sidelines with no one who has any motivation to move them forward in the process. It's the one bipartisan emotion on Capitol hill- "Airline pilots, screw those a$$holes".

Thx tea party.
:-/

We need to get smarter politically and realize how much of our careers are governed on capitol hill. Either start voting Dem, or convince republicans to make an exception and support our unions. But the status quo is ridiculously dumb and the true source of the race to the bottom.

Dead on !! Never understood why most pilots are republicans but belongs to unions. It's like being pro life, but at the same time support the death penalty.
Oh no, it's getting too political

 

[pilotyip]

Dead on !! Never understood why most pilots are republicans but belongs to unions. It's like being pro life, but at the same time support the death penalty.
Oh no, it's getting too political

because dems are in to income redistribution. pilots don't want their union benefit money going to anyone but them, hence GOP

 

[densoo]

Perhaps the FAA might be interested in a study that shows drowsy people operating a vehicle is unsafe. Perhaps not.

Nearly one-third (32 percent) of American drivers admitted to drowsy driving in the past month, even though 96 percent of the respondents said drowsy driving is an unacceptable behavior.

The poll by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety was released to coincide with this year's Drowsy Driving Prevention Week, Nov. 6 to 12, hosted by the foundation, the AAA and the National Sleep Foundation.

Drowsy driving can have serious consequences. These drivers are involved in one of every six deadly crashes and one in eight crashes resulting in serious injury, according to a study released last year by the AAA Foundation.

"Although the vast majority of drivers recognize the serious threat of drowsy driving, a 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude exists when getting behind the wheel.

Drowsy driving kills, just as sure as drunk, drugged and distracted driving does," AAA Foundation president and CEO Peter Kissinger said in a foundation news release. "Drivers have a tendency to underestimate the impact being tired has on their driving ability, which puts themselves and others at risk."

http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health...g-unacceptable-but-one-third-do-it/51169908/1

 

[JT12345]

Any rest less than 9 hours (and excluding shuttle time to and from airport) is a joke. Because it means the pilot will average less than 6 hours of sleep.

It is that simple for the first rule. That simple to fix.

It gets worst and more complicated with circadian rhythms.

The FAA and Airlines don't care. This is what they care about $$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[pilotyip]

Any rest less than 9 hours (and excluding shuttle time to and from airport) is a joke. Because it means the pilot will average less than 6 hours of sleep.

It is that simple for the first rule. That simple to fix.

It gets worst and more complicated with circadian rhythms.

The FAA and Airlines don't care. This is what they care about $$$$$$$$$$$$.

like I said the perfect rule, no flying between 2200 and 0800 local, everyone would be rested

 

[waveflyer]

Dude yip- you're such a manager

 

[pilotyip]

Dude yip- you're such a manager

Thank you for the complement, what you don't like perfection? Just going back to my basic point. There are no rest rules beyond ridiculous that will ensure a crewmember flying all nigh when their time off is on daytime routine will ever be relieved of all fatigue. BTW if you have the skills you owe it to your fellow pilots to come into management and make the industry better than I have made it.