Reserve & Regional Lifestyle

[Titan5]

Regional Pay

Driver,

I was reading your last post and wanted to make a comment regarding the 1st and 2nd Yr. regional pay you mentioned. I'm not sure where you recieved your info but most DECENT regionals start there F/O's around $25/HR. If you figure a pay credit of around 1000-1100 hrs a year you end up with $25-$27.5K per year plus your per diem which usually adds another $4-5K. So, a typical F/O should easily expect to earn in the low $30's during their 1st year.

Regarding 2nd year pay, that will of course vary with the A/C you are assigned and the airline you are with. However as an example ACA/AWAC, etc. pays their F/O's around $36 an hour 2nd year in the CRJ. AWAC pays about $43 and hour for 2nd year in the Bae-146. So, at a good company, a 2nd year F/O can expect to earn $41-50 per year.

My 2 cents. Cheers,

Titan

 

[46Driver]

To answer your question, my info came from my W-2's - as sad as that is. ACA pays(or did) only $200 per month for your first 75 days in training and then a 75 hour guarantee afterwards. I was in training for about 8 months (I was stuck in the Dornier backlog) However, pay is about $21 per hour regardless of aircraft type your first year and then about $25 for the Dornier and $34 for the CRJ your 2nd year (Many of us in the Dornier take the CRJ pay freeze for your 2nd year - none of us are upgrading anytime soon and it saves the company training cost of switching us to the CRJ). Also, the fact that you are making large sums of money in the reserves means that you are not going to be flying nearly as much as the others who do not have the reserves. You are correct - if you do nothing but fly airlines, you can make $41 or more a year as a F.O. but if you are taking time off for military duty, your airline pay will go down some but it way more than compensated by military duty.

 

[Hawker1]

Warning. This is probably a stupid ?

What's a Crash Pad?

 

[Hawker1]

One more stupid ?

What's the difference in F/O and Capt?

 

[46Driver]

A crashpad is an apartment at your domicile for commuters. If you have a 6:30 AM show, you will have to arrive the night before. You might have to do this 3,4,5,6 nights a month. In major cities, hotels can become prohibitively expensive (The cheapest in Boston is $68 a night on the airline rate that I have found) so a lot of pilots and flight attendants (say 10) rent an apartment and share it. Since usually only 1 or 2 will be there on any given night, you save money. This also helps out tremendously if you are sitting reserve.
The captain is the one who signs for the aircraft, is senior, and makes more money. The f.o. is the first officer who has less responsibility and makes less money.

 

[orioncontract]

Titan5, from what I can glean, the best pay this side of the majors is at Air Whiskey, which starts at $24/blk-hr for the RJ and the BA146, and $21.75/blk-hr for the Dornier 328 (this according to their website). At Comair, the first yr pay is $21.75/blk-hr, and I understand that it is similar or the same at Skywest (don't know their equipment). ASA and ACA I think pay a little less (though ASA is in the middle of negotiating their contract, so this may change...someday). Then there are the others (one of my crashpad roommates came from Great Lakes, and was on his second year pay--coming to Comair was something like a $5 RAISE for him). So I have no idea where you get your $25/blk-hr info for the decent regionals.

IF you get a pay credit of 1 to 1.1K hrs, yeah, you'd make $22-25 large. Maybe some more people out there could give some anecdotal evidence of this happening at XYZ airways, but I'm not aware of anyone doing this at Comair, and I can't see how it could be done even doing tons of CD/standup lines after you get senior enough to get off of reserve and the 75 hr/month guarantee (course, this doesn't mean it hasn't happened). So right there, that's going to limit you to $21.75-24K, plus whatever you can get from per diem. Second year pay, at Comair at least, will be mid to high $30s over the next few years (the life of the contract).

As you can see from this thread alone, the time in training varies greatly, and has a great affect on pay. Comair you spend 2.5 mos in training, then get regular pay when you go to IOE. My ex-Great Lakes roommate had long breaks in training because of...whatever problems they were having at that time, I don't remember those particulars at the moment. You can see 46Driver had EIGHT months...Something else to consider besides just straight pay (I would also consider the stability of the parent company, and whether it was a wholly owned subsidiary, i.e., whether the work is susceptible to a contract that could be ending soon, or amended in bankruptcy court).

Back to the original subject. I got my reserve job before ever leaving active duty. Since the augmentation unit I'm affiliated with is part of training command, there are more than the 48 regular drills and two weeks active a regular SELRES can expect, plus my drills are almost never going to be on weekend (since the training squadron we augment RARELY, if ever, flies then, unless I want to do a weekend cross country for a detachment to Key West ). I do a two leg commute to CVG that is somewhat painful, but is ameliorated by two other destinations here on the Redneck Riviera that I can catch a flight out of in a pinch. I would not dream of leaving tax-free, sunshine-filled, CONSERVATIVE, NW Florida where we have family, unless it gets enormously painful commuting. As for travelling space-available on passes, that can be taxing because of loads, so be prepared to set aside a day each way.

Several more final things: 1) I'm STILL waiting on my USNR orders so I can start to drill (got out 12/31/02) at the unit. Do your USN separation physical within 3 mos of getting out, even though you can do it as early as 6 mos, because one form (SF 93) has to be recently completed or New Orleans will kick your Reserve package back. Seems like the paperwork takes two months, so don't plan on supplementing your income before that time. Depending on how many drills you can do (Comair allows two weeks/month I believe) and how many your Reserve unit has available, you'll make ~$20-25 large in the reserves. Unless you go on active duty for a year, don't expect $50K!

2) Airline equipment: If you get your flight kit from Scott's (the one available from the Navy/Marine supply system doesn't fit), then only get one external pocket, because it's a beee-ahtch to wrestle the thing into its holder on the RJ if you have two. Don't worry too much about the size of your overnight bag--used to be everyone got the 23" tall one, because it fit well in the crew compartment on the RJ, but with the reinforced/remanufactured doors we're getting, it won't fit in the crew baggage compartment now, so you have to throw it in a yellow bag in the hold anyway. Try to buy the overnight bag, your headset, and most of your uniform items at the company store--it's an interest free loan you pay off in installments. If you want to save a few bucks, you can buy your shirts (vhpilotshirts.com--poor service, high value), pants (local JCPennys), Bancroft hat (Bancroft hat company 8004488090--poor service, duopoly on caps at Comair) and shoes (local NEX/BX) elsewhere for cheaper.

3) Find your crashpad BEFORE you go to training at CVG, because you can get a decent deal with roomates (~$150/month) or you can find a crappy deal (>$250/month) with roomates. Either way, if you have to get a room for training (and at Comair, you do, as they only pay for the first week at the hotel), it won't be as easy as it may seem to find something in the more affordable range.

Good luck, and PM me with any questions I didn't already cover.

 

[GCD]

I believe you're getting some good, free advice.

I prefer living close to my ARNG unit, and having my wife close to family. The post 9/11 airline and military world is in an unsteady state (as if I needed to repeat that to you), and it requires us, as airline/military pilots to be a little more giving for our family.

I met my wife in N. KY when I worked for Comair. Since then, I went off to the Pacific to fly the big Boeing for JAL. I landed a Director of Safety job, which went away in the post 9/11 world, and now am at NWAirlink Pinnacle, based in MEM.

During school, I pondered where to live. I'm a MEM FO, but the junior CA base is DTW. We have three bases which are all easy commutes from CVG. I'm in the Indiana ARNG, which is 75-80 miles from CVG. Case closed. We bought a house in Florence, KY so my wife can be close to family while I'm on any future deployment. I tend to believe, as the others, it's better to be near the reserve unit because domiciles change in this uncertain business. Hopefully, more jumpseats will start opening up.

Thanks Comair guys/gals for the rides from MEM to CVG when I can't go on our airline.

 

[pony251]

regionals and reserves

Richard, I'm almost in your exact situation. I left active duty in Nov. My guard package is almost through all the wickets necesary for me to raise my hand. I currently commute to my domicile so I can sit four to five days of reserve. Unless your airline is hiring like crazy, prepare to sit around on reserve for a while, a long while. My wife can't believe I sit around all day waiting to fly. she has been beating me up about the decision to live where the Guard unit is instead of my domicile. My reasoning is this, the Guard can be depended upon a lot more than your airline. You probably aren't going to stay at your regional forever, but you will probably stay with your unit for several years. If you ever do get furloughed you are in a lot better position to take advantage of doing the guard/reserve thing. The best part is that you can probably (airline dependent) get all the military days you want from your airline. You can at least make some cash and be close to home this way. Plus, it is a lot more fun than flying straight and level all day.

- Shop around for a crashpad. Some are hotel room types for about $160, while others are houses or apartments. I pay $225 a month as a reserve to live in a large house with several other guys. We all get along great, so it can be some good times( a cross between a frat house and a ready room). However, I would rather be home with the wife and kids.

-The first year pay sucks everywhere. ACA pays $21.53 an our with a 75 hour guarantee. If I actually do fly (which is rare) I get per diem as well . ACA actually does pay you during training, albeit $200 a week. A lot of regionals pay nothing until you pass the Checkride. You definitely need to have saved up to survive if you have a family.

Bottom line is this- The first year or two will not be easy. We all hope we won't have to be in this situation forever and that things should eventually get better as you gain some seniority. You can always chuck the airline industry and go sell insurance as well. PM me if you want more detail

 

[Richard]

Thanks everyone

Thanks all for the very informative responses. I'm mulling this decision over (and over...) with my wife. Your input has been invaluable. Pony251, I may take you up on that offer and PM you.

 

[orioncontract]

An update at Comair

Sitting reserve in CVG. We get called for trips all the time! They are still hiring despite the company offered leave of absence for 15CA and 15 (non-probationary) FOs in April ) for us, for the mainline guys, who I really feel for--no crocodile tears either, because I think management is doing A GREAT JOB using the issue to play the two groups against each other. I'm just sorry my MEC has taken the issue it has regarding hiring mainline furloughees {althouth I do understand that they don't want to give up a bargaining chip for nothing}, and that the mainline MEC isn't willing to at least consider the Comair MECs' concerns. I think it's the senior guys that both run the MECs and drive the issues, and that it ends up hurting both rank and file groups, especially when there's no compromise).

We have the same 75 hour guarantee, and from what I can gather, the REASONABLE crash pad costs between $150 and $200 in the N Ky area.

The times are a changin', and the downward pressure on a PROFESSIONAL pilots' wages continues unabated from 1978, with no solidarity visible on the horizon. It won't be long until the military bonuses actually exceed what you can get on the outside, at which time the military bonus structure will change. Ahhhhh, market forces.

On the plus (?) side, you could become an accountant or a CEO/senior management type and reap a real WINDFALL (if you're looking to make the $$$). Of course, it's on the backs of the American worker, but I digress from my conservative roots.