Reserve & Regional Lifestyle

[Richard]

I'll try to breath a little life into this rather underused Board. I was recently hired at a Regional. My family and I are planning to move to the domicile. I was also planning to do work the Reserve squadron angle (which I would have to commute to). Anyone out there making this kind of arrangement work successfully with a family? What are the rules? How many days a month can I work Reserve? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[46Driver]

I would suggest living at your reserve base. Your domicile for your regional could change but I am assuming you will stay in the same military resrve unit until you retire. When you are at your airline, chances are you will be on the road anyway, when you are on military duty (depending on the unit), you could very well be at home everynight. Finally, until you upgrade to captain, your military reserve unit might possibly be your primary source of income. Good Luck.

Almost forgot: for Navy and Marine Corps, you have your 24 days of regular drills, plus 72 AFTP's (additional flight training periods commonly used 2 per day) and then whatever active duty money your unit can scrounge together.

 

[Richard]

All very true

Now you got me thinking again! The biggest thing I'm concerned about is dealing with the crash pad. The problem right now is that I'm still on Active duty and won't know about getting picked up with the reserve squadron until after I get out. It could be a painful first year if I don't get picked up right away, especially if I sit reserve at my airline! Thanks for your advice.

 

[HoursHore]

same boat

I'm in the same boat, looking to get on with a regional and a tanker unit. Most Buds I've talked to in the reserve unit I am rushing and the unit asscoicated with my AD squadron say live near the reserve base. That way its easier to pick up those extra drill periods on your off time if you want, and get some extra mil pay which is way more than first year pay. Just avoid the double commute. Don't know anyone who has made that work. An hour or so drive I guess is fine, but an airline commute to both blows.

 

[46Driver]

You might want to look at getting into the reserve unit first - and thus have a nice guaranteed income. None of the airlines are going anywhere so you aren't missing out on a whole lot. Also, there is a good chance there will be a lot of down time during training so you can use that to go drill. Remember, drills and AFTP's are budgeted on the fiscal year so you can cook off all 72 AFTP's by Sept 30 and then get a whole new batch starting Oct 01. Also, you can take orders away from your reserve unit to fill staff functions in a variety (we had an offer today for 179 days in Tampa) so there is plenty of work out there. Hope this helps.

 

[Richard]

A reserve squadron can be such gold mine. I've heard of guys making 50-80K on reserves alone (less so now with the downturn in the airline industry). Where do I sign!

 

[AlbieF15]

Gold mine? Well....how about a good iron ore open pit mine. Good solid work--you won't get rich but the extra income can be great on first year pay. You will have to work, but especially if extra days are out there, life can be good. Many guys in my unit have been able to get 139 MPAs (total for FY) to go along with the 48 UTA/AFTPPs.

Some furloughed guys have gotten orders to augment various units for 90-180-365 days or so. Problem is that while the money and benefits are nice, there is no guarantee of future "man day" availablity...so even if you are troughing hard at the moment you have to be pragmatic and save some funds for down the road.

As for lifestyle...I made a VERY tough call to pass up working for one company to work for FedEx. Turns out I really enjoy FDX, but one of the primary reasons I chose them was the easier commute, as I knew I'd be living near my ANG base. If you are close, you can have a very comfortable quality of life working locally and being home at night, then hitting the road on airline trips. If you live in domicile, you can probably get a similar lifestyle bidding reserve, but I imagine at the end of the month you will have been away from home more days (since you'll get called up some) than if you lived near your military unit. I've know a few guys who double commuted for a while, but all will tell you its a tough road.

I actually started to respond just to emphasize you shouldn't expect to "get rich" doing ANG/Reserve duties. On the other hand, an extra 20-40k per year can help get you through rough times, and being able to "drop" a trip here or there with mil leave can sure make momma and the kids happy when you are home for special events. Nothing is free, however, and there are some real costs.

First...when the schedule a war...you may have to go. If they schedule a war after you are off probation and making great money as a Captain...well...you still get to go!

Second...you have now doubled the ways to screw up and kill yourself. Only you can decide how much/little flying you need to do to stay current at BOTH jobs, with two different (sometimes radically different) airframes, different missions, etc. I had 10 years experience in my military airframe before leaving active duty, but now flying it in the ANG I still cannot "coast" but have to stay up on the latest new avionics, tactics, comm changes, etc. At the same time, your airline still expects you to sail through all your checkrides and sims. I had a line check at my airline in Oct, an AF Instrument checkride and sim in Nov, a mission check (tactical employment) in January, and am due for another airline sim check in March. None of it is overwhelming, but my point is for every sim or check you study for, you will soon get to study for twice (or more) as many. Add upgrades if you are learning a new jet (MQT, flight lead, mission commander, instructor in fighters or MQT, airdrop, aircraft commander, AAR, IP, etc in heavies) and either way you will have a full plate keeping up with everything some days.

Don't let me scare you away, however...if you can make it work it really is a great way of life. You get to be an airline pilot with the associated benefits, but when you see bad things on CNN you can look in the mirror and know you are hopefully doing something to help serve this great country along the way. You can't buy that feeling, and no kidding...having done this for a year...I've been very greatful for the money but even happier to still be part of the team.

Good luck.

 

[P3tarbaby]

Here's my .02 cents worth from the perspective of being a TAR for 5 years and now a SELRES for the last year...

Being a SELRES in a squadron is a GREAT safety net from a financial standpoint. It has kept food on my table for the last year while I made the transition in this awefule job market and, like Albie said, will help supplement first year pay once I start at Fedex in a couple of months.

As far as where you should live...I would go along with what the previous posters have said, live near your Reserve unit. You should be able to apply and get accepted before you get off active duty (I had a billet almost a year out). Also, living near your unit is a HUGE plus in your favor in the selection process for getting into a unit. I know from my experiences that the squadron is much more likely to pick you up if you are local, availablity is much better for them and it's much easier for you.

Hope this helps.

 

[Richard]

I've heard so many nightmare stories about commuting in the first year at a Regional (what with 3-4 mos of training and 6 mos holding a reserve line) that I've kind of shied away from living at my reserve location. The one advantage I have near my Reserve Unit is that we have family there. We have no family at my Airline's domicile. So I am invisioning that I could still be very available to my Reserve Squadron as often as they want me. And since my family could fly for free, when I do Reserves they could visit family. But given the wt of responses I've seen on this discussion, I may live at my reserve location yet!

 

[46Driver]

Greetings from Innsbruck - I´m in the Alps trying to snowboard (quite unsuccessfully I might add). If I read correctly, you are headed to the regionals which is quite diferent from Albie15 and P3Tarbaby. To those guys who made it to Fedex, congratulations, you hit the goldmine - I am turning green with envy. The difference for the rest of us: they only need the reserves for a year or 2 to tide them over. If you are headed to a regional, you are going to need the reserve income for years to come. 1st year regional pay: $15k, 2nd year $29k, 3rd year not expected to change significantly. However, reserve income was $40k 2 years ago and $50k last year - probably more this year. Until you make it out of the regionals which could be 5 years, 10 years, maybe never, the extra income literally makes a world of difference in your lifestyle. The difference between $100k and $130k is nowhere near the difference between $30k and $70k. Anyway, good luck on your career - and to Albie15 and P3 TarBaby, tell me that Fedex is as good as I always heard it is (I need something to keep me motivated!)

 

[Titan5]

Regional Pay

Driver,

I was reading your last post and wanted to make a comment regarding the 1st and 2nd Yr. regional pay you mentioned. I'm not sure where you recieved your info but most DECENT regionals start there F/O's around $25/HR. If you figure a pay credit of around 1000-1100 hrs a year you end up with $25-$27.5K per year plus your per diem which usually adds another $4-5K. So, a typical F/O should easily expect to earn in the low $30's during their 1st year.

Regarding 2nd year pay, that will of course vary with the A/C you are assigned and the airline you are with. However as an example ACA/AWAC, etc. pays their F/O's around $36 an hour 2nd year in the CRJ. AWAC pays about $43 and hour for 2nd year in the Bae-146. So, at a good company, a 2nd year F/O can expect to earn $41-50 per year.

My 2 cents. Cheers,

Titan

 

[46Driver]

To answer your question, my info came from my W-2's - as sad as that is. ACA pays(or did) only $200 per month for your first 75 days in training and then a 75 hour guarantee afterwards. I was in training for about 8 months (I was stuck in the Dornier backlog) However, pay is about $21 per hour regardless of aircraft type your first year and then about $25 for the Dornier and $34 for the CRJ your 2nd year (Many of us in the Dornier take the CRJ pay freeze for your 2nd year - none of us are upgrading anytime soon and it saves the company training cost of switching us to the CRJ). Also, the fact that you are making large sums of money in the reserves means that you are not going to be flying nearly as much as the others who do not have the reserves. You are correct - if you do nothing but fly airlines, you can make $41 or more a year as a F.O. but if you are taking time off for military duty, your airline pay will go down some but it way more than compensated by military duty.

 

[Hawker1]

Warning. This is probably a stupid ?

What's a Crash Pad?

 

[Hawker1]

One more stupid ?

What's the difference in F/O and Capt?

 

[46Driver]

A crashpad is an apartment at your domicile for commuters. If you have a 6:30 AM show, you will have to arrive the night before. You might have to do this 3,4,5,6 nights a month. In major cities, hotels can become prohibitively expensive (The cheapest in Boston is $68 a night on the airline rate that I have found) so a lot of pilots and flight attendants (say 10) rent an apartment and share it. Since usually only 1 or 2 will be there on any given night, you save money. This also helps out tremendously if you are sitting reserve.
The captain is the one who signs for the aircraft, is senior, and makes more money. The f.o. is the first officer who has less responsibility and makes less money.

 

[orioncontract]

Titan5, from what I can glean, the best pay this side of the majors is at Air Whiskey, which starts at $24/blk-hr for the RJ and the BA146, and $21.75/blk-hr for the Dornier 328 (this according to their website). At Comair, the first yr pay is $21.75/blk-hr, and I understand that it is similar or the same at Skywest (don't know their equipment). ASA and ACA I think pay a little less (though ASA is in the middle of negotiating their contract, so this may change...someday). Then there are the others (one of my crashpad roommates came from Great Lakes, and was on his second year pay--coming to Comair was something like a $5 RAISE for him). So I have no idea where you get your $25/blk-hr info for the decent regionals.

IF you get a pay credit of 1 to 1.1K hrs, yeah, you'd make $22-25 large. Maybe some more people out there could give some anecdotal evidence of this happening at XYZ airways, but I'm not aware of anyone doing this at Comair, and I can't see how it could be done even doing tons of CD/standup lines after you get senior enough to get off of reserve and the 75 hr/month guarantee (course, this doesn't mean it hasn't happened). So right there, that's going to limit you to $21.75-24K, plus whatever you can get from per diem. Second year pay, at Comair at least, will be mid to high $30s over the next few years (the life of the contract).

As you can see from this thread alone, the time in training varies greatly, and has a great affect on pay. Comair you spend 2.5 mos in training, then get regular pay when you go to IOE. My ex-Great Lakes roommate had long breaks in training because of...whatever problems they were having at that time, I don't remember those particulars at the moment. You can see 46Driver had EIGHT months...Something else to consider besides just straight pay (I would also consider the stability of the parent company, and whether it was a wholly owned subsidiary, i.e., whether the work is susceptible to a contract that could be ending soon, or amended in bankruptcy court).

Back to the original subject. I got my reserve job before ever leaving active duty. Since the augmentation unit I'm affiliated with is part of training command, there are more than the 48 regular drills and two weeks active a regular SELRES can expect, plus my drills are almost never going to be on weekend (since the training squadron we augment RARELY, if ever, flies then, unless I want to do a weekend cross country for a detachment to Key West ). I do a two leg commute to CVG that is somewhat painful, but is ameliorated by two other destinations here on the Redneck Riviera that I can catch a flight out of in a pinch. I would not dream of leaving tax-free, sunshine-filled, CONSERVATIVE, NW Florida where we have family, unless it gets enormously painful commuting. As for travelling space-available on passes, that can be taxing because of loads, so be prepared to set aside a day each way.

Several more final things: 1) I'm STILL waiting on my USNR orders so I can start to drill (got out 12/31/02) at the unit. Do your USN separation physical within 3 mos of getting out, even though you can do it as early as 6 mos, because one form (SF 93) has to be recently completed or New Orleans will kick your Reserve package back. Seems like the paperwork takes two months, so don't plan on supplementing your income before that time. Depending on how many drills you can do (Comair allows two weeks/month I believe) and how many your Reserve unit has available, you'll make ~$20-25 large in the reserves. Unless you go on active duty for a year, don't expect $50K!

2) Airline equipment: If you get your flight kit from Scott's (the one available from the Navy/Marine supply system doesn't fit), then only get one external pocket, because it's a beee-ahtch to wrestle the thing into its holder on the RJ if you have two. Don't worry too much about the size of your overnight bag--used to be everyone got the 23" tall one, because it fit well in the crew compartment on the RJ, but with the reinforced/remanufactured doors we're getting, it won't fit in the crew baggage compartment now, so you have to throw it in a yellow bag in the hold anyway. Try to buy the overnight bag, your headset, and most of your uniform items at the company store--it's an interest free loan you pay off in installments. If you want to save a few bucks, you can buy your shirts (vhpilotshirts.com--poor service, high value), pants (local JCPennys), Bancroft hat (Bancroft hat company 8004488090--poor service, duopoly on caps at Comair) and shoes (local NEX/BX) elsewhere for cheaper.

3) Find your crashpad BEFORE you go to training at CVG, because you can get a decent deal with roomates (~$150/month) or you can find a crappy deal (>$250/month) with roomates. Either way, if you have to get a room for training (and at Comair, you do, as they only pay for the first week at the hotel), it won't be as easy as it may seem to find something in the more affordable range.

Good luck, and PM me with any questions I didn't already cover.

 

[GCD]

I believe you're getting some good, free advice.

I prefer living close to my ARNG unit, and having my wife close to family. The post 9/11 airline and military world is in an unsteady state (as if I needed to repeat that to you), and it requires us, as airline/military pilots to be a little more giving for our family.

I met my wife in N. KY when I worked for Comair. Since then, I went off to the Pacific to fly the big Boeing for JAL. I landed a Director of Safety job, which went away in the post 9/11 world, and now am at NWAirlink Pinnacle, based in MEM.

During school, I pondered where to live. I'm a MEM FO, but the junior CA base is DTW. We have three bases which are all easy commutes from CVG. I'm in the Indiana ARNG, which is 75-80 miles from CVG. Case closed. We bought a house in Florence, KY so my wife can be close to family while I'm on any future deployment. I tend to believe, as the others, it's better to be near the reserve unit because domiciles change in this uncertain business. Hopefully, more jumpseats will start opening up.

Thanks Comair guys/gals for the rides from MEM to CVG when I can't go on our airline.

 

[pony251]

regionals and reserves

Richard, I'm almost in your exact situation. I left active duty in Nov. My guard package is almost through all the wickets necesary for me to raise my hand. I currently commute to my domicile so I can sit four to five days of reserve. Unless your airline is hiring like crazy, prepare to sit around on reserve for a while, a long while. My wife can't believe I sit around all day waiting to fly. she has been beating me up about the decision to live where the Guard unit is instead of my domicile. My reasoning is this, the Guard can be depended upon a lot more than your airline. You probably aren't going to stay at your regional forever, but you will probably stay with your unit for several years. If you ever do get furloughed you are in a lot better position to take advantage of doing the guard/reserve thing. The best part is that you can probably (airline dependent) get all the military days you want from your airline. You can at least make some cash and be close to home this way. Plus, it is a lot more fun than flying straight and level all day.

- Shop around for a crashpad. Some are hotel room types for about $160, while others are houses or apartments. I pay $225 a month as a reserve to live in a large house with several other guys. We all get along great, so it can be some good times( a cross between a frat house and a ready room). However, I would rather be home with the wife and kids.

-The first year pay sucks everywhere. ACA pays $21.53 an our with a 75 hour guarantee. If I actually do fly (which is rare) I get per diem as well . ACA actually does pay you during training, albeit $200 a week. A lot of regionals pay nothing until you pass the Checkride. You definitely need to have saved up to survive if you have a family.

Bottom line is this- The first year or two will not be easy. We all hope we won't have to be in this situation forever and that things should eventually get better as you gain some seniority. You can always chuck the airline industry and go sell insurance as well. PM me if you want more detail

 

[Richard]

Thanks everyone

Thanks all for the very informative responses. I'm mulling this decision over (and over...) with my wife. Your input has been invaluable. Pony251, I may take you up on that offer and PM you.

 

[orioncontract]

An update at Comair

Sitting reserve in CVG. We get called for trips all the time! They are still hiring despite the company offered leave of absence for 15CA and 15 (non-probationary) FOs in April ) for us, for the mainline guys, who I really feel for--no crocodile tears either, because I think management is doing A GREAT JOB using the issue to play the two groups against each other. I'm just sorry my MEC has taken the issue it has regarding hiring mainline furloughees {althouth I do understand that they don't want to give up a bargaining chip for nothing}, and that the mainline MEC isn't willing to at least consider the Comair MECs' concerns. I think it's the senior guys that both run the MECs and drive the issues, and that it ends up hurting both rank and file groups, especially when there's no compromise).

We have the same 75 hour guarantee, and from what I can gather, the REASONABLE crash pad costs between $150 and $200 in the N Ky area.

The times are a changin', and the downward pressure on a PROFESSIONAL pilots' wages continues unabated from 1978, with no solidarity visible on the horizon. It won't be long until the military bonuses actually exceed what you can get on the outside, at which time the military bonus structure will change. Ahhhhh, market forces.

On the plus (?) side, you could become an accountant or a CEO/senior management type and reap a real WINDFALL (if you're looking to make the $$$). Of course, it's on the backs of the American worker, but I digress from my conservative roots.