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Report entering or established in a hold??

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BoDEAN

Cabo Wabo Express
Joined
May 4, 2002
Posts
1,055
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you were instructed to hold at a LOM, would you inform ATC crossing over the LOM or once you enter the hold (from whatever hold entry you enter in, reach the holding fix, call and start your turn outbound?) Not sure if you would report [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]arriaving at a holding fix or to report "established" in the hold.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Where would the radio call occur?
[/font]
 
BoDEAN said:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you were instructed to hold at a LOM, would you inform ATC crossing over the LOM or once you enter the hold (from whatever hold entry you enter in, reach the holding fix, call and start your turn outbound?) Not sure if you would report [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]arriaving at a holding fix or to report "established" in the hold.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Where would the radio call occur?
[/font]


Im a little too lazy to look up the AIM/Reg ref. but I believe you are to report "crossing" the holding fix as "established in the hold". Since that counts as one turn.

There is a lot of disagreement on what the true definition of established is. If it is really a huge deal then just report "crossing" (time, alt, etc) the fix to ATC as a heads up to ATC and if you get a request back from them for "established" in the hold then make it.
But I do believe crossing the fix for the first time is considered "established" in the holding "pattern".
 
Just off the top of my head,

From my understanding and typical SOP in a myriad of different situations in both sims and in actual operations it is when you are established in the hold - specifically in a direct entry when you start your outbound turn, with other situations when your established in the hold entry procedure.

I am sure that the experts here will either confirm or contradict this! ;)

Good Luck To Us All!
 
You call entering the hold when the navaid is passed initially.
 
When you get to the holding fix and when you leave, you report.

AIM 5-3-7
f.Pilots should report to ATC the time and altitude/flight level at which the aircraft reaches the clearance limit and report leaving the clearance limit.

-mini
 
Report Established
The time and altitude arriving over the fix after you've completed the turn to the inital outbound entry heading, flown outbound for one minute, turned inbound, and crossed the fix.


Report Entering
The time and altitude when you initially cross the fix for the first outbound entry leg.
 
BoDEAN said:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you were instructed to hold at a LOM, would you inform ATC crossing over the LOM or once you enter the hold (from whatever hold entry you enter in, reach the holding fix, call and start your turn outbound?) Not sure if you would report [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]arriaving at a holding fix or to report "established" in the hold.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Where would the radio call occur?
[/font]

If the controller requests you to report *entering* or doesn't make a specific request, report reaching the holding fix for hte first time. If you are requested to report "established" report crossing hte fix after your entry has been conpleted. The reason for this that in non-radar operations, the controller *may* (unlikely but could happen) take away a bunch of the airspace he's protected for your hold once you are established. Specifically, ATC can 'un-protect" the area that is protected for the entry manuvering.
 
BoDEAN said:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Where would the radio call occur?[/font]

Right after I wet myself in fear of holding, to ask for a delay vector. :D










.
 
If you are holding the freq will probably be so congested that you call whenever you can get a word in edgewise in my experience. And they usually don't care because they just gave you the hold anyway!

Same with leaving, it must be rare to get "depart the hold at xy:00 hours", I usually get, Fly direct abcde, cleared as previously filed. So I don't go "Nabc leaving the ho-old!"
 
A Squared said:
If the controller requests you to report *entering* or doesn't make a specific request, report reaching the holding fix for hte first time. If you are requested to report "established" report crossing hte fix after your entry has been conpleted. The reason for this that in non-radar operations, the controller *may* (unlikely but could happen) take away a bunch of the airspace he's protected for your hold once you are established. Specifically, ATC can 'un-protect" the area that is protected for the entry manuvering.

That's how I remember it.
 

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