renting a charter certificate

[atphen]

I manage two aircraft for private individuals (citation and king air) and would like to offset some of thier cost by putting the aircraft on 135 charter certificates. I have heard Raytheon Aircraft Charter "rents" thier certificate. Anyone have information on Raytheon or any others?

Thank you for your time.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Most 135 cert. holders will put aircraft on their certificate in a lease agreement.

However, you as aircraft manager will probably be out of a job. Once a bird goes on 135, it falls under total control of the 135 holder due to the maint. and pilot requirements.

You may be able to work something out, but I have seen more than a few pilots lose their job or trade it for a much lower paying Charter pilot only position by trying to "help out the owner" and go this route.

I would try to set up a fractional operation instead. You already have two birds. Then you are the operator and not somebody else.

Be careful and check it out before you leap.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Wise words..I have also seen this.

 

[mike1mc]

Eexutive Jet Management (EJM) does this and Bombardier FlexJet (Business Jet Solutions??) as well. With these companies, you will be operating under their control, but can still keep your job as a coordinator (maintenance, training, etc.). I'm not sure if they'll take the turboprop though.The fractional idea is great, but you may be looking at operating under 91K which can be as involved as a 135 certificate.

 

[350DRIVER]

I manage two aircraft for private individuals (citation and king air) and would like to offset some of thier cost by putting the aircraft on 135 charter certificates. I have heard Raytheon Aircraft Charter "rents" thier certificate. Anyone have information on Raytheon or any others?

Thank you for your time.

You can't "rent" a 135 certificate. Many part 135 operators will take other aircraft on for a set monthly fee. In addition to the monthly fees most will also charge for initial training, recurrent training, checkrides, etc, for those coming onboard with the aircraft. If you are looking at Raytheon I would ask many questions if I were you and speak to others who have done this. They are rather expensive from what I recall and the paper work, etc, also leaves a little to be desired.

You can accomplish the same thing quite cheaper with other 135 operators. Be selective and try to enter some agreement where they will guarantee X amount of trips or hours on the planes each month. Many flight departments will do this since they now will have more flexibility and options.

If you have any specifics please feel free to contact me via a pm. I had researched this area quite a bit a few years back when a close friend of mine wanted to put his CJ1 on a 135 certificate.

You will have many benefits by doing this but will also encounter some negatives.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[Publishers]

Yes, most of the ones mentioned do management agreements that will place your aircraft on their 135 certificate. Most of these have no interest in King Airs with the exception of Piedmont Hawthorne. One reason so many companies do this is that the insurance often goes way down when you are in a large pool.

On the other hand, companies like Delta Air Elite require huge insurance liability numbers like $300million. This can eat up the savings. They also offer training pools which again save money.

Most of these people would only want the bigger Citations. Lear 60's seem to be the aircraft of choice these days.

The posters who think you would be out of a job are not quite right. It depends on the deal as many of Delta Air Elite or Executive Jet Management agreements are strictly for the charter and you have your own crews or manager.

These deals are usually done on a 85%/15% basis and none of the big ones guarantee times.

Smaller operators like ourselves who have FBO's can offer fuel and hanger deals that make them attractive charter partners.

In short, you would be better off with a local company than the bigger ones with the equipment you have.

 

[400A]

Atphen / Racm

We operate on Raytheon, and it works great for us. They do not take over your aircraft as Kerosenesnorter mentioned, but some do. At RACM you can be the point of contact, and can approve or decline which charters you want.

As for Raytheon maintaining control, it simply means you call for a release number before you fly. It is quite easy and the support is great.

Feel free to PM me and I will fill you in on all the details. They are a great bunch to work with.

 

[350DRIVER]

Yes, most of the ones mentioned do management agreements that will place your aircraft on their 135 certificate. Most of these have no interest in King Airs with the exception of Piedmont Hawthorne.

Pub,

Quite possibly I misunderstood your response, are you suggesting that most 135 operators have no interest in putting King Airs on the ticket?. If that is what you were implying that is not correct and is somewhat of a misleading response. Most of the operators that I have been associated with and know are always looking for King Airs which are always in high demand due to the simple fact of the great short field capability that this fleet provides. Many of the destinations that we would operate to would not be possible with a jet.

Ever heard of the Simon group in IND?. The president of that company travels to and from 4G4 to IND on a weekly basis on either a C90B or a 350. Some fields you will not get a jet into.

There will always be a market for the King Airs, a very popular charter aircraft.

3 5 0

 

[PseudoName]

I manage two aircraft for private individuals (citation and king air) and would like to offset some of thier cost by putting the aircraft on 135 charter certificates. I have heard Raytheon Aircraft Charter "rents" thier certificate. Anyone have information on Raytheon or any others?

I am not trying to be a prick, however, posts like this amaze me. How can you be a professional pilot with thousands of hours and numerous type ratings and have no clue about your profession?

Renting a charter certificate? Please tell me you haven't already told your owner(s) you might be able to do this.

....and you "manage" these aircraft? This is a joke, right?

 

[atphen]

Pseudoname,

I am flattered by your insight "a professional pilot with thousands of hours and numerous type ratings" and greatful for your concern for my well being "have no clue about your profession?". However, long before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye I was involved with an operation that "rented" a charter certificate - Martin Aviation out of KSNA (I know that the term "rented" is hard for some to swallow, but when you don't "own" it but just "use" it call it what you may.) It has been a long time since then and I was just curious to get some feedback from this forum.

To 400A and the others, thank you for your insight. I greatly appreciate your time and effort with the replies.