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Remember AMR's 80 for 80 pins?

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Don't feed the troll.
 
Gutless? No.

Powerless? Thanks to another f'ed up arbitrator, yes.

TC
 
Yes- gutless.

Just where is your line in the sand? Doesn't affect you, right? Those a/c should be flown by mainline and you know it. Simply show up to hdq w/ several thousand resignations and stand up!

But maybe you're a bit too cowardly for that. Much easier to blame the system, than to take responsibility and do something.

But make sure you complain to every liberal you see how this country is falli g apart bc nobody takes responsibility anymore.

You have more power than you think. You just have to sieze it. Seems all of you legacy guys have been unwilling for a decade.
 
luckytohaveajob said:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/am...ardier-regional-jets-2009-12-03?siteid=yhoof2

In the mid 1990's AMR distributed 80/80 Pins. It represented what AMR wanted to do. It wanted Eagle pilots to fly the MD80 for $80k a year.

Looks like AMR did it and the pilots are now silent and gutless to stop it.
Click to expand...


For the record, AMR did not make those pins/stickers. An American Eagle pilot did. I know. I was there.

Also for the record, very few Eagle pilots supported the campaign. Even then most realized that they would be cutting their own throats.

Keep mainline planes at the mainline. Otherwise none of us have a future.
 
Almost 60 Billion in CRJ's sold since inception.
 
Old news. Besides, they already have twenty something -700's right? These new ones will have a first class section, so fewer than the current 70 seats. Hell, a big ATR has 66 seats. If they start flying the C-Series with 100-149 seats, you can start to freak out. Until then...relax, man.
 
Snapperhead said:
Sorry, you thought wrong. Delta flies -88s and -90s; American flies DC-9-80s (and maybe some ex-TWA -83s).
Click to expand...

Not just any -80. They have the SUPER 80. Sweeeeeet.
 
waveflyer said:
Yes- gutless.

Just where is your line in the sand? Doesn't affect you, right? Those a/c should be flown by mainline and you know it. Simply show up to hdq w/ several thousand resignations and stand up!

But maybe you're a bit too cowardly for that. Much easier to blame the system, than to take responsibility and do something.

But make sure you complain to every liberal you see how this country is falli g apart bc nobody takes responsibility anymore.

You have more power than you think. You just have to sieze it. Seems all of you legacy guys have been unwilling for a decade.
Click to expand...
375 Midwest pilots effectively did that by refusing to work for substandard wages. What has that gotten them? Is there an ALPA assessment to help them? Here's an article
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/10/20/story2.html?q=Midwest Airlines pilots

I would guess there are about 10,000 furloughed pilots in the US. You think that the legacy pilos you have such disdain for have the leverage to play a game of brinksmanship with management? Especially when you're dealing with management that has no interest in whether or not the airline continues to operate; they'll get a job with some other unrelated corporation.

Then somebody will dredge up a venture capitalist to fund their great airline idea that will succeed where others have failed because they won't be saddled with high labor costs, etc, etc, etc.

Battles are fought to win, not for practice.
 
And as this thread points out... What would you do if AMR decided to replace and outsource all the -80's w/ C100's. Would you have the same attitude?

To outsource jet flying while furloughing should have been your line in the sand. I don't have a disdain for you- I don't care about you- but I recognize weakness when it's obvious and so does your management. Divide and conquer- chip away, chip away. It'll stop when you stop it.

Personally, Id settle for pilots realizing that republican's want to f^ck us and stop voting for the pricks. Maybe then we wouldn't have judges circumventing contract through the BK process (or in your case- the threat of it) and we'd have the political will at the NMB to get things done. Democrats can be frustrating, but in the end - my mortgage is a LOT easier to pay w/ them at the reigns. Yes, I said it. I'd rather be taxed at 38% of $170k than 32% of a $90k.... Call me crazy
 
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Has that happened?
No. And if the peak of the Laffer curve that your supply side economics are based is where you say it is, then raising taxes to 50% would be stupid economically as well as politically- Now Obama is a lot of things- but he's not dumb, and especially not politically dumb. So where's your evidence of a 50% tax rate?
Bc of the spending--- well... I'd say this spending is mostly cleaning up bush/ republican deregulation policies.

The money to pay for all this spending will come from the people who have the money- the top 5% who have been paying a lower percentage of of their income than most of us for years.

I love it when barely middle class pilots start arguing for an increased gap between the rich and poor- despite the highest levels since the great depression. Our economic engine depends on a fair distribution of earnings. Something republican policies don't allow.
 
The current issue of Aviation Week and Space Technology with the two F18s climbing vertically has an article stating Embraer is planning their next airframe. The Embraer President Curado, name may be spelled wrong, stated Embraer is looking at a larger turboprop design to hit a sweet spot in the airframe market share being crowded in the under 100 seat jet field.

Imagine a 150 seat turboprop doing 350-400 knots? The Electra did it back in the 1950's but failed. I bet the designers get the engine mounts right this time and build a real union scope buster passengers like. It will be sold and marketed as a green plane Prius drivers will flock to ride on for $59 a seat on the less than 1000 mile stage length.

The 1950's to early 1960's saw three transitions of design. Rapid developments can easily occur when an advantage is seen. And if short term union thinking cannot see the forest through the trees which it has failed miserably to do the last decade the proud will fall hard and fast.

Do you think Embraer can do it? I do because they have time and time again.
 
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Well said!
This idea that Only regionals fly turboprops is ridiculous. It's another reason I love southwest. If it has southwest on the tail- we fly it. Some ex-mil one job types don't get it, but most do- we're pretty unified in that. Even the Q400's that might have been coming from Lynx.
Most of us were strong- we fly it- for the same pay rates. A bigger plane- same rate- we aren't going to be divided. I like it.
 
I love it, the emb's and crj's should be at mainline rants. They could have been if the mainline wanted to fly small jets. Maybe with reduced pay, well you have to start somewhere. AA had the chance to fly the CRJ's but didn't take it. Now with people still on the street after years they want the jets. Not going to happen, the camel is in the tent already.
 
Sounds like someone decided ... Err.... Never passed a major airline interview.... To make a career at eagle- more jets is good for you isn't it?

I'm not that concerned with the career progression of the lowest common denominator. I'm really not. But I'll agree on this - AA and every other weak, excuse making legacy pilot really screwed up- and bc of that camel argument- continue to screw the pooch

start somewhere - just say all new jets are flown at mainline- go from there - as contracts expire- take them back- inch by inch- don't tell me it can't be done- what can't continue is giving away our career to the lowest bidder
 
waveflyer said:
Sounds like someone decided ... Err.... Never passed a major airline interview.... To make a career at eagle- more jets is good for you isn't it?

I'm not that concerned with the career progression of the lowest common denominator. I'm really not. But I'll agree on this - AA and every other weak, excuse making legacy pilot really screwed up- and bc of that camel argument- continue to screw the pooch

start somewhere - just say all new jets are flown at mainline- go from there - as contracts expire- take them back- inch by inch- don't tell me it can't be done- what can't continue is giving away our career to the lowest bidder
Click to expand...
First of all yes, more jets at eagle is good for me, in the short term. In the long term, I think the current and the recent past mainline guys sold anyone junior to them, mainline and regional alike, down the river. They did it to either make a gain for them..read thinking of them selves and not anyone else..or protecting a pension.

Second if you mean legacy interview, no i haven't but then again name a legacy that is hiring that I can go interview at. In the last round of hiring I didn't meet the minimums, flight time, for interview.

I know you don't care about my career progression, you don't care about anyones except yours. I don't have a problem with it, I just find if funny that the mainline guys start screaming about the small jets when times get hard. The pilots screaming get them back are the same ones that were short sighted saying I will not fly that little jet.

the BIGGEST problem though is right in your post. The "lowest common denominator." What that little phrase says is that I am better than you and you should do as I say not as I do. The "fact" that you flew an RJ, that is if you were truthful in your profile thing, speaks volumes. It was okay to fly it when you did but now that you fly a 737 it isn't okay any more. That means hipocrit, but hey I don't know you so whatever.. The problem is no common goal. Also why should I help you when you are not willing to help me. Right now I see no where beyond eagle, I don't like that but it is the truth, with age 65, the economic boondogle, shrinking fleets and poor management. The only thing I have going for me is the hope that what ever congress is proposing in trainning and rest requirements creates more jobs at the mainline and cargo carriers. But then again, there are so many more qualifed pilots out there on the street because thier airline shut down I still won't get on with an airline that pays better.

Good luck at getting the flying back, I personally don't think it will happen.
 
Avroguy--there is no doubt that the senior guys who "had theirs" tossed future generations of mainline pilots under the bus by giving away small aircraft flying in the 80's and early 90's.

We're trying to correct that.

I believe the genesis of that effort was the divide between the "majors" and the Republics, Frontiers, Ozarks, AirCal's, etc. of the past. The big guys looked down their noses at the FH-227's, CV-580's and even the DC-9's flying from Bettendorf to Champaign to ORD. That flying was beneath them.

It's not beneath me. Or you. But if I fly for AA, I want to be on AA's contract, not Eagle's. Whether I'm flying a 777 from KORD to ZSPD or an ATR from DFW to LBB (that's for you General...) it should be on the same seniority list with the same contract.

We shouldn't avoid attempting to correct the mistakes of the past and harm the pilots of the future.

TC
 
AA717driver said:
Avroguy--there is no doubt that the senior guys who "had theirs" tossed future generations of mainline pilots under the bus by giving away small aircraft flying in the 80's and early 90's.

We're trying to correct that.

I believe the genesis of that effort was the divide between the "majors" and the Republics, Frontiers, Ozarks, AirCal's, etc. of the past. The big guys looked down their noses at the FH-227's, CV-580's and even the DC-9's flying from Bettendorf to Champaign to ORD. That flying was beneath them.

It's not beneath me. Or you. But if I fly for AA, I want to be on AA's contract, not Eagle's. Whether I'm flying a 777 from KORD to ZSPD or an ATR from DFW to LBB (that's for you General...) it should be on the same seniority list with the same contract.

We shouldn't avoid attempting to correct the mistakes of the past and harm the pilots of the future.

TC
Click to expand...

Now your answer I like and is the way I feel about it. If all contract and mainline carriers could get together and be on the mainlines list things would get better. I don't think it is likely but then again things change and I am going to change with them.
 
I think I jumped the gun on you- sounds like we've had similar careers- I never wanted to fly an RJ for a regional and have always had issues with outsourcing- even while I was doing it. You're right- I did begin to feel like a hypocrit and a sellout myself- but the responsibility to get the flying back is on mainline.

What I was referring to with the LCD comment are the regional pilots who have no desire to leave or improve to pass interviews- who argue for more and more outsourcing - to their benefit alone. Every regional has that minority- and they have often moved up the power chain. Those are the people I was referring to. The ones who hope that bigger airplanes get outsourced to them.

Sounds like you and I argue the same point. I'm highly critical of legacy pilots who outsource flying- then belittle the pilots they disenfranchise by outsourcing.

If the flying can get back under the mainline tent with one list and one contract- that's leverage that will help us all. The current situation hurts us ALL. Mainline included.

I've connected these dots before- but it's the gospel I'm preaching these days-

outsourcing hurts mainline pilots bc it creates a group of talented, experienced and underpaid pilots- these pilots now are willing to accept Virgin and USAir payrates bc it is a real step up financially- thus putting competitive pressure on all our wages.

If you're pissed about your 30-40% paycuts since 9/11- it has it's inception with outsourcing. Only major airline pilots got a vote on outsourcing. You've got to look in the mirror when contemplating your paycut
 

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