Relgion and murder

[airspeed]

Not trying to start a war. Just curious what you all think. As we know it seems there have been many wars with Christians, jews, muslims, etc. Yet I cannot think of any war, murder, etc that had to deal with the buddhist religion. You never hear of buddhist bombing or killing people do you? Maybe thats the way to go. Just a thought.

 

[Timebuilder]

Did you ever see a Bhuddist monk setting himself on fire in Saigon? It used to happen very frequently. Supposedly, this was an act of protest. According to the Bible, we are not to decide to take our own life, nor to take the life of another acting as an individual without process, which is the prohibited act of murder. The exception is defense of one's self or another.

There is no Biblical prohibition against war. We are required, though, to act as good stewards when doing so, as in all things..

 

[ATL2CDG]

Timebuilder:

They were Buddhists... Buddhists...

Quit holding people accountable according to the dictates of YOUR religion. Believe it or not, and quite fortunately, not everyone thinks and believes as you do.

Last time I checked, the U.S. was a democracy, or actually, a constitution federal republic - not a theocracy. Until some fire-breathing Baptist minister overthrows the national, state and local governments, the rights of ALL people, not just conservative Protestants must be maintained. If you don't like it, then I'm sure Iran, the world's best example of a country formally led by religion, would be more than happy to welcome you.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Technically, Buddism isn't a non-exclusive religion. Unlike many religions, you can be a Buddist and a member of another faith and still be considered a good Buddist.

 

[blueridge71]

I think that many of the Japanese soldiers in WWII were Buddhists. I could be wrong though, I've never seen statistics on it.

 

[skyking1976]

Technically, Buddism isn't a non-exclusive religion. Unlike many religions, you can be a Buddist and a member of another faith and still be considered a good Buddist.

More definitively, Buddhists look to find the virtue in all types of philosophies. Enlightenment comes from accepting what one believes to be right, not what one is necessarilty told to be right. Yes, many Japanese are Buddhists.

Sky "Nirvana" King

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

While many Japanese were/are Buddhists, a large number are also Shinto. I think the question that really is being posed is whether there have been people involved in mass killing IN THE NAME of their religion. I don't think you can say there has been documented mass death in the name of Buddhism. I don't think we can say that regarding Christianity (yes, it's a religion, you whackos) and Islam.

 

[Snakum]

Technically, Buddism isn't a non-exclusive religion. Unlike many religions, you can be a Buddist and a member of another faith and still be considered a good Buddist.

Not really. Historically, only the particular Japanese form of Zen (Chan in China and Son in Korea) accepted that one might be 'Buddhist' (actually meaning a Zen meditator; not the same thing really) and be something else as well. In the Vietnamese Zen tradition in which I was originally ordained (Liu Quan Thien) they'd tell you you're going to Buddhist hell as quickly as any fundamentalist Christian. Same goes for the orthodox Theravadins and Tibetans. The confusion arises because 'Buddhism' as practiced by white folks here in the west tends to be more a New Agey, inclusive, feel-good, yuppie trip, as opposed to anything resembling the true teachings (of ANY school). This is good in some ways ... bad in others. And of course, this varies among different centers.

More definitively, Buddhists look to find the virtue in all types of philosophies. Enlightenment comes from accepting what one believes to be right, not what one is necessarilty told to be right. Yes, many Japanese are Buddhists.

Point 1 ... see previous paragraph.
Point 2 ... Not even close.
Point 3 ... The Buddhism practiced by the majority of Japanese officers during WWII was a mish-mash of Rinzai Zen (very militant), Shinto, and anscestor/Emporer worship. And yes ... many Japanese Zen monks/teachers supported the war because they were human, like the rest of us, and got WAY off track in the nationalistic fervor of the times.

BTW ... The Japanese are among the most racially predjudiced people on the earth. Ask anyone who's lived among them. And consider the Sri Lankans and the Tamil issue. Trust me ... Buddhists don't have a lock on wise, compassion, treatment of their fellow man. They can be just as militant as any other group. Well ... not as dicked up as the Christians and Muslims, of course ... but you know what I mean.

Reverend Thich Minh Thong

 

[GogglesPisano]

. Until some fire-breathing Baptist minister overthrows the national, state and local governments, the rights of ALL people, not just conservative Protestants must be maintained.

I think that's happened already.

 

[bart]

ATL2CDG:

Quit holding Timebuilder and everyone else accountable according to the dictates of YOUR religion. Believe it or not, and quite fortunately, not everyone thinks and believes as you do.

Sounds silly doesn't it?

It is none of your business how someone else believes or whether they hold you accountable to a given standard. If Timebuilder holding you accountable to the standards of his religion causes YOU problems, then I would suggest seeing a counselor, because YOU have a problem, not him.

 

[airspeed]

I believe the most popular buddhism here in the states is Tibetan and also that of Nichiran Daoshonin the chanting of nam myo renge kyo. In Japan back in WW2 is was mostly shinto. I cannot vouch for Japs being racist but I also cannot remember anytime in history when the buddhist religion particulary tibetan buddhism ie the Dalai Lama fought any wars or used buddhism in the name of war. Have you ever heard of buddhists threatning to kill people if they don't believe in the same thing?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I cannot vouch for Japs being racist

I think the word people mean to say in this context is NATIONALIST. Japanese are Asian, but generally are no more averse to caucasians or Africans than they are Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.(other asians) They hold them all in low esteem. It's not a racial thing, it's a nationalist thing.

 

[skyking1976]

Minh...

Far be it for me to dispute what you have to teach. I am a student in the presence of a teacher and will learn from what you offer.

To correct my earlier statement...

Enlightenment comes (in part) from having right view and right aspiration.

However incomparable the truth is, I vow to attain it.

 

[ATL2CDG]

It is none of your business how someone else believes or whether they hold you accountable to a given standard.

Dearest bigot... I mean, bart:

The entire point of the original posters question was the Buddhist views on murder in the name of religion. Timebuidler then changed the focus to Buddhist suicide in the name of religion. He then elected to throw into the pot a completely unrelated topic to the intent of the original poster: the Christian Bibical view of suicide.... COMPLETLY unrelated to Buddhist views on murder and suicide in the name of religion.

Perhaps you should know about what you are talking before you post... I hope you don't run your 'finance department' with the same level of ambivalence to the central issue(s) before you.

TysV

 

[Snakum]

I also cannot remember anytime in history when the buddhist religion particulary tibetan buddhism ie the Dalai Lama fought any wars or used buddhism in the name of war.

You might wanna check with the Tamil people of northern Sri Lanka on that one.

And as far as Tibetan Buddhism goes ... they didn't need wars when the ruling class of Buddhist Monastics owned all the land, money, power, etc. and killed political enemies with poisons and by assasination, rather than overt warfare. Look into it ... it's pretty disgusting.

So you see ... humans are just barely out of the trees and any of them can revert back to the animal competitive behavior that we find reprehensible today. Give a man a gun, take away social constraints (Bosnia, Africa, etc.) and he will rape and pillage. Scratch any man deep enough and you'll discover a raging beast ready to live by the law of the jungle.

The problem is, you don't have to scratch a Muslim or a Christian very hard at all to uncover a lunatic. But that's about the ONLY difference I can see.

Minh

 

[Timebuilder]

Quit holding people accountable according to the dictates of YOUR religion. Believe it or not, and quite fortunately, not everyone thinks and believes as you do.

I would never imagine holding someone to what was merely "my belief."

I DO acknowlege that I happen to agree that the Bible is the word of God. By extension, I am agreeing with God that everyone should conform their behavior to what HE says. Also accordinbg to the Bible, this cannot be done under duress from another person or government.

As an Aamerican, I think it is foolish to suggest that America could or even should ever be ruled a a country with a state religion. The only reason you mention Iran is to put up a straw man that has nothing to do with what Christians believe. If you want to criticize someone, and the facts aren't on your side, then just make up some new "facts" that sound good. Ted Kennedy, is that you?

The entire point of the original posters question was the Buddhist views on murder in the name of religion. Timebuidler then changed the focus to Buddhist suicide in the name of religion.

What Timebuilder did was point out that suicide is the murder of one's self, and is still murder. The monks did not kill themselves in the "name of religion," they did this as a political act. Even people who have no belief in God generally see the idea of murdering one's self as being offensive and wrong.

So, these venerated monks who are so "accepting" of diverse views murdered themselves for a political purpose.

Let's stick with the facts.