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Regulate 'em, Crandall says

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If you want to eliminate BK protection for airlines, then it has to apply for everybody, not just airlines.


BK protection should end for all types of corporations, as well as individuals. It amazes me that people make bad decisions, buy things they can't afford, and then run to court and get out of paying the bills. That applies to corporations as well.
 
Regulate it?

Answer: Amtrak. Now there's a well run state-sponsored, highly efficient, fast mode of transportation.

How 'bout Greyhound? Anyone remember Trailways? Didn't think so.
 
Regulate it?

Answer: Amtrak. Now there's a well run state-sponsored, highly efficient, fast mode of transportation.

Good example. Amtrak charges a reasonable amount of money for their fares (a lot more than a comparable airline ticket) and provides much better service. Sounds good to me.
 
Mr. Bush and his fellow Republicans have proven for 8 years that they don't have a clue about either.

Yeah, and the Democrats for the previous 50 years? How'd they do?
 
What?

Hmmm. I believe the Republicans have bankrupted the country, led us into a war without end, and presided over the massive decline of the US airline industry.

If you want to eliminate BK protection for airlines, then it has to apply for everybody, not just airlines.

The "gubment" needs to have a coherent energy and air transportation policy. Mr. Bush and his fellow Republicans have proven for 8 years that they don't have a clue about either.

The airline industry is way too capital intensive to run like small town taxi industry. If that's ok with the country, then it deserves the kind wild swings in service and prices that it gets. Just like it's been said . . . "every people get the kind of government they deserve." Looks like we deserve a corrupt, incompetent and dishonest government.

Time to make a change. Anything has to be better than the sick clown-show who's running it now.

Lay off the booze man. Do you realize how much of the past eight years has been damage control for the previous eight?
 
Lay off the booze man. Do you realize how much of the past eight years has been damage control for the previous eight?

That's one hell of a pathetic excuse.
 
Here's a price comparison:

I looked at three of the four modes available to get from Dallas to Chicago this weekend. I didn't include driving.

Amtrak: Limited schedule. 1way = $173. Duration: 23:34

Greyhound: Slightly less limited. 1way = $164 (refundable). Duration: 20:50

American Airlines (DFW-ORD): Good schedule availability. Roundtrip = $781. Duration: 2:15 (non-stop).

Southwest (DAL-MDW): Good schedule, all one-stop, some change plane, limited availability. Roundtrip = $523. Duration: 3:30 depending on the stop.

UAL (DFW-ORD): pretty good schedule, OK availability. Rountrip = 558. Duration: 2:15 or so.

I didn't do anything special. This is a last minute look up no FF miles.
 
Lay off the booze man. Do you realize how much of the past eight years has been damage control for the previous eight?

Hmmm. Spoken like a true uneducated monkeys @ss. Enjoy the next several years at the regionals if your lucky. I got my number at the majors if I get furloughed I will have a place waiting for me. You on the other hand, well....get back to your trailer!
 
Hmmm. Spoken like a true uneducated monkeys @ss. Enjoy the next several years at the regionals if your lucky. I got my number at the majors if I get furloughed I will have a place waiting for me. You on the other hand, well....get back to your trailer!

That number at a major is great.... Let's see-
-Braniff
-Pan Am
-Eastern
-TWA

Lots of people at those majors had numbers too. I'll bet some don't have as nice a trailer as your RJ buddy now..... There are no sure bets in this industry-your major number may not be worth nearly as much as you think.

-Unducated monkey @ss!
 
Hmmm. Spoken like a true uneducated monkeys @ss. Enjoy the next several years at the regionals if your lucky. I got my number at the majors if I get furloughed I will have a place waiting for me. You on the other hand, well....get back to your trailer!

I've got a number also and a backup plan in Law Enforcement!:angryfire

J-Monkey sucks!
 
Hmmm. I believe the Republicans have bankrupted the country, led us into a war without end, and presided over the massive decline of the US airline industry.

If you want to eliminate BK protection for airlines, then it has to apply for everybody, not just airlines.

The "gubment" needs to have a coherent energy and air transportation policy. Mr. Bush and his fellow Republicans have proven for 8 years that they don't have a clue about either.

The airline industry is way too capital intensive to run like small town taxi industry. If that's ok with the country, then it deserves the kind wild swings in service and prices that it gets. Just like it's been said . . . "every people get the kind of government they deserve." Looks like we deserve a corrupt, incompetent and dishonest government.

Time to make a change. Anything has to be better than the sick clown-show who's running it now.

I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, but I don't think Mr Bush has done too bad. When was the last administration that had to deal with:
1. Worst attack in US history
2. Rebuild a military (decimated by Clinton) so we could:
3. Launch two war fronts to kick some much justified a$$, while keeping a close eye on North Korea and Iran.
4. Worst Natural disaster in US history
5. Major mortgage crisis
6. Major oil crisis

Granted, he has made some mistakes. What president hasn't. But I certainly don't think Gore or Kerry would have done any better. Had GW not brought our economy back and picked this country up so strong and quickly after 9/11, we would be in much worse shape today.

To criticize in hindsight is cowardly. Especially when all it is is complaining and whining about what your gov't hasn't done for you lately.

Clinton had a cake walk for 8 years thanks to technology. Booming computer industry, booming cell phone industry, booming ecomerce industry. And with all that, he only balanced the budget one year. And that was by raping businesses and the working class with taxes.
 
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I don't think Mr Bush has done too bad

Stopped reading right there. Anything that comes after that certainly can't be worth reading. :rolleyes:
 
Hence the reason you are a liberal. Closed minded, selfish, whats in it for me and its not my fault

Nah, I was open minded for 7 years about Bush. Hell, I even voted for him both times. He's simply proven to be an unparalleled imbecile.
 
You've got some apples to oranges stuff in there, so let's make it a little easier to compare:

Here's a price comparison:

I looked at three of the four modes available to get from Dallas to Chicago this weekend. I didn't include driving.
You included just 1-ways for the Train and Bus options, but round-trips for the airlines, so we'll double the cost of the Train and Bus options for more accurate comparisons:

Amtrak: Limited schedule. 1way = $173. Duration: 23:34
So, $346 to go by train round-trip.

Greyhound: Slightly less limited. 1way = $164 (refundable). Duration: 20:50
$328 to go by bus, round-trip.

American Airlines (DFW-ORD): Good schedule availability. Roundtrip = $781. Duration: 2:15 (non-stop).
Legacy carrier, $781 a little more than double what it costs to go by bus or train.

Southwest (DAL-MDW): Good schedule, all one-stop, some change plane, limited availability. Roundtrip = $523. Duration: 3:30 depending on the stop.
Not even double what it costs to go by bus or train.

UAL (DFW-ORD): pretty good schedule, OK availability. Rountrip = 558. Duration: 2:15 or so.
Legacy carrier in trouble, selling somewhere between another Legacy and the LCC with a lot of frequency in and out of Chicago, cost not even double what it takes for bus or train.

So, what you're telling us is that most airlines are only DOUBLE what it takes to ride by bus or train, even though the cost to PRODUCE that seat is likely 5-7 times as much.

So Greyhound and Amtrak cover their costs and turn a profit, which is what any responsible company should do, and the airlines don't (or can't).

Travel times aren't the point here,,, the point is that deregulation has failed. Not because it's not providing me with a job (I'm surviving just fine and still flying, although I'd love to be back in an airliner for the schedule and career earning potential), but mainly because AIRLINES REFUSE TO COVER THEIR COSTS.

They either can't or won't price the product to at least break-even or better, then rely on the government protection of bankruptcy to bail on all their obligations, refinance their debt, screw their employees, then start all over and do the bankruptcy dance again and again and again.

That's not a successful industry; to even try to defend deregulation is preposterous. Yes, it gave us cheap fares for a huge number of Americans, but at what cost in the end? How many BILLIONS has all the airline bankruptcies, shutdown carriers and associated job losses, and personal bankruptcies as a result, cost the American public over the last 20 years?

Is re-regulation the answer? I wish I could say so, simply because I know the American government wouldn't allow the wholesale reduction in capacity needed to correct ticket prices. The citizens would scream bloody murder, and demand their "right" to airline travel. However, if you just removed the safety net of bankruptcy for airlines, enough of them would fail that the same thing would happen, and you'd simply have a lot of unemployed ex-airline employees, huge financial messes at GE Cap and other lending monsters, and tens of thousands of p*ssed U.S. citizens that demand their "right" to airline travel.

Either way is bloody. Pick one.
 
Hence the reason you are a liberal. Closed minded, selfish, whats in it for me and its not my fault

Wow dont you think that was harsh? Dont forget gay like Dick Cheneys daughters and that bad foot tapping man.
 
I'm not smart enough to tell you when it will happen, but we will just end up in a modified version of what happened to Europe. As a country we've largely built ourselves, our history and our culture as an outcropping of theirs why this situation would be any different I can't fathom. Europe was devastated after the WW's to the point where their national airlines were weak and dependent on government aid/propups and/or help for foreign carriers like Pan Am/TWA. As a proud first world, former empire, those countries propped up their carriers until they could survive on their own or merge into some EU entity that could do the same. The US didn't get ravaged by WW's, but the financial effect of the Iraq war and globalization has had the same effect, and ultimately the US Airlines will likely get propped up by a combo of government and foreign airline $$$ for the same prideful reasons that Europe did it. It won't matter who's in charge either-Dem or Rep. Until that day....
 
Good example. Amtrak charges a reasonable amount of money for their fares (a lot more than a comparable airline ticket) and provides much better service. Sounds good to me.

Ugh.

I believe that was sarcasm.

Amtrak is the perfect example of a very poorly run government regulated industry that sticks it to the taxpayer.

The problems of Amtrak are legion, so I won't go into all of them. The most glaring one is this: every congressman wants a piece of it. Instead of concentrating on something truly useful, like a high speed train running regular service between BOS-IAD-NYC, taxpayer money is wasted on routes that nobody rides on all over the country.

Regulated air service will be no different. The most powerful congressman would get the most air service. The fact is, if it's federally regulated like Amtrak, markets would be artificially limited, and the markets would be chosen by political pull, not customer need.
 
I'm not smart enough to tell you when it will happen, but we will just end up in a modified version of what happened to Europe. As a country we've largely built ourselves, our history and our culture as an outcropping of theirs why this situation would be any different I can't fathom. Europe was devastated after the WW's to the point where their national airlines were weak and dependent on government aid/propups and/or help for foreign carriers like Pan Am/TWA. As a proud first world, former empire, those countries propped up their carriers until they could survive on their own or merge into some EU entity that could do the same. The US didn't get ravaged by WW's, but the financial effect of the Iraq war and globalization has had the same effect, and ultimately the US Airlines will likely get propped up by a combo of government and foreign airline $$$ for the same prideful reasons that Europe did it. It won't matter who's in charge either-Dem or Rep. Until that day....

Throw in some Shock Doctrine!

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/short-film
 

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