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Regionals hiring and foreigners
- Thread starter buckdanny
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DC10
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
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- 145
Believe it or not, writing in a language other than your native tongue is not as easy as writing in your own.
Just for the record MYFpilot, how many other languages do you speak well enough not to make any spelling mistakes?............................ Yeah, I thought so, and before you come back with one of your half witted comments, I speak English plus three others.
Just for the record MYFpilot, how many other languages do you speak well enough not to make any spelling mistakes?............................ Yeah, I thought so, and before you come back with one of your half witted comments, I speak English plus three others.
MYFpilot
SDSU Super Fan
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Posts
- 273
First off let me apologize if I've offended anybody, or their language(s), nationality, or Vietnam hero father. My intent was not to cause world war three, just stir a little debate. I'm not into isolationism or racism or any other ism. Let me again, very clearly and slowly, state my point…
My point is, oh wait, hold on a second… Let me wash down this sloppy Joe… OK, thanks. Oh yeah, Texas started spring ball (college futbol americano) yesterday, GO Horns!! Anyway, let me continue. I'll quote the statement that got my attention.
"A couple of days ago I ran into my former flight instructor who's swedish and now flies for a regionals. He told me that most airlines are now in debates to hire ONLY US citizens. It completely surprised me because of the legal aspects that involve such a discriminatory rule, unless of course the airline has governemt contracts requiring citizenship among its workforce."
I will again provide my objection to the statement above: Why is it discriminatory for a US company to hire only US citizens?
Now let me thoroughly and clearly explain my position: I don't believe US citizens are people who were born exclusively in the United States. It doesn't matter if you were born here, or immigrated here and went through the naturalization process. You are a citizen of the United States of America just the same. I know, without a doubt, that the United States of America is the greatest country in the world. I completely understand why, and would welcome anybody who wants to leave his or her county and join "our team". However, a US citizen, whether by birth or naturalization, should have priority when it comes to employment by US companies.
My point is, oh wait, hold on a second… Let me wash down this sloppy Joe… OK, thanks. Oh yeah, Texas started spring ball (college futbol americano) yesterday, GO Horns!! Anyway, let me continue. I'll quote the statement that got my attention.
"A couple of days ago I ran into my former flight instructor who's swedish and now flies for a regionals. He told me that most airlines are now in debates to hire ONLY US citizens. It completely surprised me because of the legal aspects that involve such a discriminatory rule, unless of course the airline has governemt contracts requiring citizenship among its workforce."
I will again provide my objection to the statement above: Why is it discriminatory for a US company to hire only US citizens?
Now let me thoroughly and clearly explain my position: I don't believe US citizens are people who were born exclusively in the United States. It doesn't matter if you were born here, or immigrated here and went through the naturalization process. You are a citizen of the United States of America just the same. I know, without a doubt, that the United States of America is the greatest country in the world. I completely understand why, and would welcome anybody who wants to leave his or her county and join "our team". However, a US citizen, whether by birth or naturalization, should have priority when it comes to employment by US companies.
Hi MYFpilot,
I can't speak for others, but you didn't offend me; I believe that most conflicts come from a misunderstanding and/or lack of information. I just wanted to stay humble and quiet until the storm goes by
I already answered your question about why it is discriminatory to hire only citizens in an earlier message, but I will do it again in different words because of the high volume of messages this topic generated.
IN order to gain citizenship, one must initialy be a permanent resident (PR) for a few years. 3 if PR through marriage and still married, or otherwise five. You can also become a citizen if you have 3 years of military service. Getting PR is a rather long process and you have to earn it. The most comon ways are marriage, and work if no citizen or already PR were available for the position. Getting PR is very hard, and immigration doesn't give it to everybody. From what I read in your posts, I got the impression that you think PR is something that everybody can get easily. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, then let me correct you and tell you that it is not, and thousands of foreigners get deported every year because they are not PR, and INS wouldn't grant it to them. When you are in the US on a visa and it expires, you are simply asked to go home where you came from.
Yes, you heard military service above. That means, the US military is full of PRs, who are non citizens. They can't be officers (requires citizenship to pass security clearences) but still are fighting for a country of which they are not citizens and know the risks. Moreover, if you are a foreigner and get PR before you are 26, you must register for selective service regardless of whether or not you want to join the military. So if you are not a citizen, just a PR and can be called to fight for the US, or decide to join the military on your own will, isn't that a valid reason to have as much right to work as other citizens? The only difference between a PR and citizen, is that the PR can't vote, can't run for political positions and can't pass security clearances. That's why the only jobs that clearly state "US citizenship required" are those that involve the US government. From what I've heard, even police officers can be only PRs. Citizenship is only a formality for those who earned there PR and stayed resident of the US for a few years.
That's why the department of justice passed a law called INA I think, that requires employers to give PRs the same chances as citizens. A PR being denied a job that doesn't require citizenship is considered discrimination against national origin by law. In the case we are debating here, the requirement of citizenship that airlines think about instauring is clearly because they don' t want to go through a background check that will take 45 days from what I understood. If the USDOJ finds this out, it will take only one reporting from a foreigner to have the USDOJ conducting a serious investigation, I can guaranty you this. THe only statment that airlines had regarding hiring was that they cannot (or do not want to) sponsor foreigners who are not PR. And that, I understand and support. And that has always been that way, even before 09/11.
Maybe I should have stated all this in my first post, to avoid confusion and make my point valid, but I didn't want to make my message too long and boring. I hope you can now understand the extant of the issue, it's more than foreigners trying to work in the US. It's about legitimate residents of the country. If some day we end up sharing the sky together in a jet with all the other citizens and PRs, I can guaranty you that we will all have earned it the same way.
Alex
I can't speak for others, but you didn't offend me; I believe that most conflicts come from a misunderstanding and/or lack of information. I just wanted to stay humble and quiet until the storm goes by
I already answered your question about why it is discriminatory to hire only citizens in an earlier message, but I will do it again in different words because of the high volume of messages this topic generated.
IN order to gain citizenship, one must initialy be a permanent resident (PR) for a few years. 3 if PR through marriage and still married, or otherwise five. You can also become a citizen if you have 3 years of military service. Getting PR is a rather long process and you have to earn it. The most comon ways are marriage, and work if no citizen or already PR were available for the position. Getting PR is very hard, and immigration doesn't give it to everybody. From what I read in your posts, I got the impression that you think PR is something that everybody can get easily. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, then let me correct you and tell you that it is not, and thousands of foreigners get deported every year because they are not PR, and INS wouldn't grant it to them. When you are in the US on a visa and it expires, you are simply asked to go home where you came from.
Yes, you heard military service above. That means, the US military is full of PRs, who are non citizens. They can't be officers (requires citizenship to pass security clearences) but still are fighting for a country of which they are not citizens and know the risks. Moreover, if you are a foreigner and get PR before you are 26, you must register for selective service regardless of whether or not you want to join the military. So if you are not a citizen, just a PR and can be called to fight for the US, or decide to join the military on your own will, isn't that a valid reason to have as much right to work as other citizens? The only difference between a PR and citizen, is that the PR can't vote, can't run for political positions and can't pass security clearances. That's why the only jobs that clearly state "US citizenship required" are those that involve the US government. From what I've heard, even police officers can be only PRs. Citizenship is only a formality for those who earned there PR and stayed resident of the US for a few years.
That's why the department of justice passed a law called INA I think, that requires employers to give PRs the same chances as citizens. A PR being denied a job that doesn't require citizenship is considered discrimination against national origin by law. In the case we are debating here, the requirement of citizenship that airlines think about instauring is clearly because they don' t want to go through a background check that will take 45 days from what I understood. If the USDOJ finds this out, it will take only one reporting from a foreigner to have the USDOJ conducting a serious investigation, I can guaranty you this. THe only statment that airlines had regarding hiring was that they cannot (or do not want to) sponsor foreigners who are not PR. And that, I understand and support. And that has always been that way, even before 09/11.
Maybe I should have stated all this in my first post, to avoid confusion and make my point valid, but I didn't want to make my message too long and boring. I hope you can now understand the extant of the issue, it's more than foreigners trying to work in the US. It's about legitimate residents of the country. If some day we end up sharing the sky together in a jet with all the other citizens and PRs, I can guaranty you that we will all have earned it the same way.
Alex
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