Regionals can't find pilots?

[Yank McCobb]

True at Horizon also. From what I hear we cant fill our August classes. I guess people dont want to wait 6+ years to upgrade. I cant imagine why. But cheer up we are getting 1 airplane next year.

Believe it or not, there are also people who don't care. I know of someone who went to Horizon already armed with all those qualifications that most people go to regionals to get...lots of total time, several (not just one) thousand hours of turbine PIC, 2 type ratings, etc. This person lives in the NW, wanted to stay in the NW, doesn't care about the upgrade time, and places more value on other things in life.

I guess the typical "young FO" can't relate. Don't worry. At some point you will.

 

[Southbound]

Yanky,
That is the exact point. Young folks trying to get a start in aviation, trying to get some type ratings, gain "several (not just one) thousand hours of PIC" and trying to attain your impressive arsenal of people skills as well as aviaion experience and knowledge are not going to be content at QX.
Most young guys and gals starting out with babies and houses and school loans will not be able to afford being an FO in Seattle or PDX for 6 years and are therefore leaving for somewhere else that will allow for some career advancement. Then they can come back to the "Great Northwest" and camp in the right seat with your overqualified friend.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Who is to say who is "overqualified". This friend was qualified enough to get to do exactly what he wants while the rest of you are trying to figure out exactly what that is.

Sounds like he is the smart one.

 

[Southbound]

Correct, who is to say what is overqualified. I would say someone with thousands of hours of PIC, type ratings is overqualified for making $25000 to start at Horizon Air. So would most of the people doing the hiring. If this friend of yours has chosen to live where he loves and has a means to make it all work financially they he IS the smart one. Good for him.

The point of the original post was that people wanting type ratings and PIC time to bolster their chances of getting their dream job (whether that is QX, FedEx, SWA or China Air or flying a DC3 in the Bahamas), then QX should not be their first choice. That is all Yanky.

There are few 18000 airline captains who have the time or the interest to contribute to a message board like this. I'm glad you are still excited enough about aviaion after all these years to want to mentor and contribute in such a selfless way.

 

[turbodriver]

There are always plenty of folks willing to "live and fly in the Great Northwest" and wait for the upgrade. We don't have problems filling classes with wide eyed youngsters. However after the reality sets in, the new hires who are movers and shakers see the reality of FO pay for 6 yrs and they leave. We have lost many junior FO's in the last year and the trend continues. I want to bitch about our pay and then realize we have it better than any other regional which is pathetic. There are all sorts of guys/gals on this board who are thrilled at the $35/hr FO, $65 captain slot in a jet.
A first year FO will make $28.10 plus the LTD overage making our pay equal to a new hire at Continental mainline. Crazy.

I hear we are going to differ our 2 deliveries in 2006 to 'wait and see' what the economy does.

And how exactly are they going to defer deliveries this time?? Last time they were supposed to get 6 RJ's in Feb 2003 but made a new deal with Bombardier at 2 per year till 2009. I find it hard to believe that bombardier would let them negoiate this again. What's your source?

 

[suupah]

You know, the dream of this being a good way to make a living is not dead. This is the regional level, it has, is and will always be rough. Now previous posts are right that this career aint what it used to be. But it will get better. This industry will get better. Sure you wont make 300k a year someday (at least not from flying) but making 150k a year isnt bad money. I tend to think optimisticly though so I'm probably going to be flamed like crazy for this post. Fire away!

you're right about this being only the regional level but these days it seems that the majors are farming out as much flying to the regionals as possible thus we gonna be here a long while, like probably half of our career. SO QOL needs to get better or eventualy no one is going to do it

 

[I Hate Freight]

QOL needs to get better or eventualy no one is going to do it

I doubt that. There is and always will be an abundant supply of 20-somethings with Shiny Jet Syndrome, subsidized by mommy and daddy, who are happy to work for nothing and even pay for training if need be.

 

[Southbound]

And how exactly are they going to defer deliveries this time?? Last time they were supposed to get 6 RJ's in Feb 2003 but made a new deal with Bombardier at 2 per year till 2009. I find it hard to believe that bombardier would let them negoiate this again. What's your source?

Hey Turbodriver,
No source. Sarcasm. I was kidding though I'm sure there is a way to get out of deliveries and I'm sure QX could pull it off in Teflon fashion. Let's hope that's not the case.

 

[turbodriver]

Couldn't see that brand of sarcasm. Hopefully, that isn't the case.

 

[eastflier]

take it like a man and go to a regional that will give you a quick upgrade and then go to AIRTRAN!

 

[BushwickBill]

I think its strange.

There are lots of people posting, on this site, how wonderful the "pay for training" program they are spending tens of thousands to get into is.

While at the same time there is a post that the same regional airline (that people are banging down the door to BUY a flight position!!! )cannot find enough pilots.

I have 600 and 100 multi so lets see what happens when I send out my resumes next month... probably nothing. Someone will either pay for my seat or an exec will walk away with 100 employees salary for his bonus.

 

[MINIME]

take it like a man and go to a regional that will give you a quick upgrade and then go to AIRTRAN!

Funny, a while back a kid came up to me at an airport to tell me exactly the same thing. He was on his way to college to get an aviation degree. He was gonna get his ratings and time while going to college. He was then gonna work at a regional for about one or two years and then go to Airtran. Needless to say, I did my part to open his eyes. I pretty much told him that at the very least he had to get a degree in something other than aviation. That in today's maket there's a good chance he'll never see a 717 or better. And lastly, to consider going to law school or medical school instead. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings but I felt obligated to tell him what I believe to be the reality of this field.

The sooner people get informed the least likely that they will persue this career. Until then and only then, will this industry start to turn around for the pilots. Supply and demand

 

[greyhound]

When I began instructing I think I discouraged more people from learning to fly than to go for it. I hurt my own pocket but that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to give these guys a REAL outlook of what to expect.

All seemed to apreciate the dosis of reality.

Flight school owners probably did not like it though.

 

[NuGuy]

I doubt that. There is and always will be an abundant supply of 20-somethings with Shiny Jet Syndrome, subsidized by mommy and daddy, who are happy to work for nothing and even pay for training if need be.

That could be changing. I have a friend in the flight school biz tell me that student starts, especially in the "big schools", is at an all time low.

Nu

 

[Goose Egg]

That could be changing. I have a friend in the flight school biz tell me that student starts, especially in the "big schools", is at an all time low.

Not us. We're not exactly "big name," but our incoming freshman class is at an all time high.

Me, I just hope that someone is still hiring when I've got my 1000 and 2. As far as low pay goes, I think I could suck it up for a year or so. It couldn't be worse than CFI'n it, could it?

-Goose

 

[Hpilot]

Regionals

Would I want to go to QX now? No, because I could kiss my 180 degree view of the water and my toys good bye. Would I want to leave QX if I were there with 7 or 8 years seniority. Not likely. I can see why if you had a secure job in the Northwest you wouldn't want to leave. I'd say half the guys I know that went to QX left and the other half will make it a career. I can't see QX ever running short of people to hire. Besides there's all those 300 hr UND guys out there. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Goose Egg]

SKW with a SLC base would bring me back home. Who knows if I can get it, but I'm sure as heck going to give it a try.

-Goose

 

[BushwickBill]

Flightsafety academy is doing very poorly for enrollment at the moment.

 

[pilotyip]

Sure sign of the coming June 2007 hiring boom, it starts at the lower end and creeps up to the majors.

 

[Goose Egg]

Sure sign of the coming June 2007 hiring boom, it starts at the lower end and creeps up to the majors.

Well, for my own sake I hope you are right. I'm still a skeptic though.

-Goose

 

[tuna pimp]

Flightsafety academy is doing very poorly for enrollment at the moment.

You know this for sure? Do you know what is driving it?

Is it that people wiseing up to the fact that they can get on at a regional with around 1000/100 and can do so with saving tens of thousands of dollars in training by going to a place like All ATPs?

 

[Tyro]

Funny, a while back a kid came up to me at an airport to tell me exactly the same thing. He was on his way to college to get an aviation degree. He was gonna get his ratings and time while going to college. He was then gonna work at a regional for about one or two years and then go to Airtran. Needless to say, I did my part to open his eyes. I pretty much told him that at the very least he had to get a degree in something other than aviation. That in today's maket there's a good chance he'll never see a 717 or better. And lastly, to consider going to law school or medical school instead.

This is fascinating. See, I did the conservative, less-interesting (to me), non-aviation long-school route thing. Got the degrees, got the training, lots of very hard work, and it "paid off" - financially, job-security wise, professionally, socially. Paid off in every way society seems to think is important. Well guess what? Looking at chucking it all for a front seat on a 1900D. I think I'd be happy there. And am old enough to be no dreamer anymore.

My hat is off to all of you, who had the courage to do what you really wanted to, in the first place.

 

[turbinewhiner]

yeah but with the way things are going the days of going to a major may come back. of course to leave again but that is just the way it is

 

[skyaddict]

"But I wonder how much information about this career really is being filtered down to the starving CFIs or college students. Time will tell."

Well, Kit Darby will tell them of the impending massive pilot shortage so that they will pay him a few hundred to attend a job fair or two that should be provided entirely at employer expense.

That shiny jet syndrome will live on forever amongst kids with rich uncles willing to fork over whatever their kid wants to fly a shiny jet, as well as some older career changers (often in tech, ironically) who have and are willing to pay a fortune for a chance to take an 80% pay cut.

Personally, I think that the idea of having to eat dirt at the regionals to make it to the majors (Fedex, UPS, SWA, and even JB and AirTran, and to some extent CAL have replaced AA, UA, DL and NW as the pots at the end of the rainbow) is what has infected the industry at all levels, has encouraging whip-sawing and pilot groups putting up with crappy contracts in return for growth/promise of upgrades. Thus, the regionals will continue to degrade the majors payscales as we see more and more heavy iron (ERJ-170s and 190s, CRJ900s) flying at burger flipping wages under contract. The future is overseas, where the growth is. To some extent that will suck up some pilot jobs.

The only way this industry could raise wages would be to create much bigger barriers to entry, eg have associations limit entries into the profession the way that the legal and medical professions do to prop up wages. If there was a free market for entry in those professions the way ours is, lawyers and doctors would have much lower wages, too, though it would be more self-regulating because aviation does have that crazy romance whereby there are always enough people willing to work for anything.

 

[belchfire]

With all the guys still on the streets from
the majors and the rate they are burning
cash anyone that thinks they will get there
and do well needs to put the pipe down
and walk away.

 

[Yank McCobb]

... needs to put the pipe down
and walk away.

Have you known or even ever heard of anyone being able to actually do this? It certainly sounds simple enough in theory, but is virtually impossible in practice.