Regional Track

[AeroViper]

Hey There,

I'm new to this website. I have my commercial/multiengine/instrument/CFII/MEI. I have 525 TT/75 ME. I'm a former Air Traffic Controller. I have worked on the ramp and ticket counter at a few different airlines (I was furloughed a few times). I computed weight and balance on various jets. I'm wondering what advice you guys may be able to offer to a fairly low-time pilot to advance his career. I have never been fired from any job. I want to be a pilot for a regional airline, but I'm low-time and most companies require at least 1000 hours total time. I have a lot of great experience. I just need an opportunity to put it to work. I just recently got my instructor ratings, so I'm pretty up-to-date on regulations, etc. I would enjoy hearing of any flight opportunities available to a low-time pilot. Thanks for your help.

Mark

 

[OPECJet]

Keep instructing and start sending out resumes. You never know when the fish will bite...

Good luck.

 

[MW44]

Aeroviper,

If you don't mind me asking what do air traffic controllers make these days? I have heard many make over 150k per year and some even top 200k with a pension. Is this true?

 

[AeroViper]

Controllers at Centers may way over $100,000/yr. The $200,000 figure may be a little high. I would say $175,000 would be more realistic as the top, unless things have changed. Controller's salaries are based on traffic volume worked. The more traffic the facility works, the higher the pay.

 

[EMBPLT]

With all the new atc jobs coming about I would have to say go back to your old profession. This is a very thankless industry now and for some years to come. If you choose to stick with it, fly, fly, fly, fly. The more multi time you have the better your resume looks. Get to know someone who can help you get a job. Knowledge will only get you so far. Knowing somebody will get you very far. -J

 

[EMBPLT]

Oh yeah, by the way, check out www.expressjet.com. They lowered their minimums a few months back and are hiring like crazy. I know 5 people hired there in the last 3 months.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

nothing makes a captain more happy than an FO with 500TT

 

[EMBPLT]

Nothing makes an FO more happy than a Captain who flies worse than he does.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

hahahahaha

TB9 The old Tampico.... flew those at Riddle whn they had them in '96. Fun lil airplane to fly

 

[DoinTime]

nothing makes a captain more happy than an FO with 500TT

Actually one thing makes me more happy. A pilot with nearly 3000 hours that still hasn't mastered basic principles of flight.

 

[blue_side_up]

No matter what you do, don't go to a Pay For Training Place. I'm sure there's nothing that makes a captain happier than having an FO that can't fly and is more than willing to get rapped. Well, maybe the FA sitting on his lap.

 

[urflyingme?!]

How long does ATC training take, may I ask.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I considered ATC training a while back. Everyone getting hired right now for the most part are coming from FAA approved college training programs. The degree program takes about two years to get, then for now there is a waiting list to get hired by the FAA. I've heard with the approval from the government for hiring of new controllers the waiting list will probably soon be eliminated. Once hired by the FAA you attend their academy out in OKC for a few months, then they assign you to a facility somewhere within the region that you chose. Right now most newbies are being put in Level 7 towers (usually located at smaller air fields and the pay isn't that great) or ARTCC facilities (excellent pay, but all radar all the time..you'll never see a real airplane at work). Forecasting to hire some 12,000 new controllers I hear over the next 10 years or so.

 

[AeroViper]

There is a program in MSP that you can become a controller in 6 months. I opted to get my bachelor degree at UND in the ATC program. Starting pay in in the middle 30's (at a lower facaility), which is higher than any FO position that I have seen. Then your second year as a controller, you get a raise up to about $45k (FO's might be lucky to hit low 30's in the second year). After you get checked out in a facility, you make a lot more money (60k-80k). I was assigned to my facility first, which is how it is done now usually. I didn't go to OKC until 1.5 years into my training. The training facility is called RTF (Radar Training Facility). You stay there for about 3 weeks and learn how to control in a radar environment. It's quite a bit of fun, and you get paid for it. To become an air traffic controller, you MUST be hired before the age of 31.

 

[brokea$$pilot]

Better Make Sure You Absolutely Love Flying

I respect your chioce on wanting to fly but it seems to me that your leaving an extremely stable and well paying job(ATC) with a real pension for a commuter airline job that many of us want out of.(that includes myself- i flew for several commuters and its fun in the beginning but it starts to suck very quickly. On the bright side i was fortunate to be at the commuters for only 5 years and these days i think it can take 8+ years just to upgrade to captain(at some Horizon,Eagle...) Whatever you choose- GOOD LUCK!

 

[brokea$$pilot]

Controllers at Centers may way over $100,000/yr. The $200,000 figure may be a little high. I would say $175,000 would be more realistic as the top, unless things have changed. Controller's salaries are based on traffic volume worked. The more traffic the facility works, the higher the pay.

Man, this is alot to give up just to want to fly in the airlines and I understand you can retire with 25 years of service.Cant beat that.

 

[AeroViper]

Well, the option of controlling again is always there. I have always wanted to fly. Money isn't everything. It's more important that you like your job than how much you make. Granted, we all need to make enough to live. I liked controlling, but flying is more fun.

 

[brokea$$pilot]

Well, like i said good luck, im sure you have thought it through. I was also hooked into flying ever since i can remember. After 5 miserable years at the commuters, I got my big break at 25.5 to fly for Qantas in my native Australia. I have been on the 74-400 for the past 1.5yr and love it. I feel i just got lucky. In the states however, things are ugly as you know. I could'nt get an interview anywhere having over 4000tt/1300 pic in a Cl-65 and a degree in engineering from a reputable university.

 

[AeroViper]

My Ultimate goal is to fly heavies. Those airplanes are so awesome. The B744 looks like it would be a lot of fun. I have to put in my time flying the regionals though. I actually don't even have a regional job yet. I just completed my CFII and MEI and am planning on instructing in a few weeks. The regionals are starting to pick up pretty good with hiring again. I hope that trend continues.

 

[brokea$$pilot]

I Think It Will. Its Not To Difficult Getting A Regional Job Anyway. My Advice, Go To A Small Turbo-prop Commuter. Upgrades Are Usually Much Quicker Than The Premier Regionals. No Point Going To Eagle,etc Where You'll Never Upgrade. This Advice Is If Your Ultimate Goal Is The Heavies. I Have Friends Who Have Gone From A Jetsream 31 To Aircraft Such As The L1011,md-11,or 747's.ata,polar,atlas,gemini,world,cathay Pacific,qantas,you Name It.

 

[Palerider957]

Aeroviper:

Oh man, where to start. After having suffered through this industry for some time, I would NOT reccomend jumping into a regional. Believe me the fun of flying the jet wears off pretty quickly after the extensive abuse from scheduling, the politics, and positively no control over your life.

If I were you, I would STAY in controlling and fly for FUN. If you jump into some miserable regional, you may regret it for the rest of your life, especially if you are not eligible to return to controlling.

I would stay with ATC, keep flying, and try to get a part-time charter job with some local operator. When I flew charter we had an old time ATC guy who just worked when he could. He seemed to enjoy the flying a whole lot more.

Whatever you do, good luck.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

There is a program in MSP that you can become a controller in 6 months.

Actually this was the MARC program which was discontinued about a year ago unfortunately. It was a direct hire program into ARTCC's from the school and actually bypassed the FAA Academy. I heard from a buddy at an ARTCC that the folks coming from this school weren't really up to par, so that may have been the reason for cutting it off.

 

[DashCojones]

Yea dude, keep your ATC job and fly(instruct) for fun on the side. You're sitting on a golden career right now...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

And guys, for the record, ATC isn't exactly the glamour of careers right now either. The pay is better, but due to critical understaffing issues at ATC facilities the morale right now is at an all time low. Controllers at many facilities are working 6 day work weeks, not getting breaks as often as required by regs, and the amount of traffic in the skies keeps increasing their workload to sometimes unreasonable levels. There are some articles regarding the understaffing at www.natca.org. Again, hopefully the hiring of new people over the next several years will relieve some of this over time, but its going to take a while to get these new people hired and proficient.

 

[Palerider957]

This is comparable to understaffed regionals, with overworked and exhausted crews. As for not enough breaks? How many times do companies violate contracts with a "don't like it, grieve it!" attitude. And all this for 17K your first year.

STAY with ATC. YOU WILL BE HAPPIER IN THE LONG RUN. And you will actually have a REAL retirement, benefits, and compensation package.

I can't say this enough.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'm not sure it really compares much honestly. As frustrating as our jobs can be at regional airlines, the stress level doesn't compare at all. With that said, this person says his real goal is to fly heavies. If thats the case, be prepared for a long, rough road ahead....and keep in mind that goal of landing a 777 on a foggy morning in London may not ever happen. If you're really getting into this business to fly big jets for big money, you may be better off staying where you are. Best of luck whatever you do though.

 

[smellthejeta]

I passed on a flying career to go be ATC. Granted, I haven't been employed in either profession yet, but I just couldn't economically justify becoming a pilot. Sure, flying is fun, but it doesn't pay the bills, at least not for several years. I've been around long enough to know that it just isn't the *career* I want. ATC isn't all the fun and games it used to be either. Yeah, the Fed's are shooting themselves in the foot with their hiring plan. The other problem is that the CTI programs are not graduating enough students to meet the FAA's hiring plan, so something will have to give. The big however is that the Feds are willing to pay me a living wage from DOH, and I can make the big bucks before I'm 30. Neither of that holds true for a pilot these days. I also don't know many controllers who are willing to "do what it takes" to push tin. I'm glad to see that. I want to see a few unhappy guys that will quit before they take a pay cut. Why? If we suck it up, ATC will turn into a flying career. That would suck big time. With the $$$ I make as an ATC'er, I can buy my own plane, fly it when and where I want to, etc.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

One thing to remember Viper is that many of us love what we do. If you truly loved being ATC you would still be ATC..correct? Many of the rants on this board..are from pilots who dont appreciate their job. In my 5 short years as a regional pilot, a certain percentage of the pilots I have flown with are fed up, would rather have another job, or fly boxes. The dream of being a captain within a few years at a major, and making close to 300K a year in most cases has evaporated..and I am certain that is why their attitudes have changed. Now, lets get onto some advice. If you want to be a pilot for some years to come, it will take hard work, dedication and bucks. Your spending should come to an end with your CFI certificates. Now you get paid to fly..instead of paying to fly. An article on the back page of AOPA pilot several years ago sticks in my mind. A pilot was featured and told the story of how he managed to get his 4 flying jobs previous to his desired job. In each case, he worked hard at applying for each job, and ignored hiring minimums. Instead, he showed up in proper clothing on a regular basis MOTIVATED. Each time, he was hired yet he did not have the required minimums. While this may not work at a regional airline, it might just work for a smaller freight, charter, banner tow, air sign, crop dusting, mile high club, traffic or other pilot position. My point is that you shouldnt be focusing on minimums cause pilots are hired that are under minimums at some operations. Get off the net, and go shake the trees. Go to every FBO, offer to wash aircraft..preferably corporate twins. Get your face out there. I know many aircraft owners that have complained to me that the FBO charges a fortune to wash their plane, or wax it. While in many cities, these activities are restricted..there are still areas that dont monitor these activities closely. If you are truly wanting to be a pilot, "Whatever it takes!" Agree that Pay for Training is the least palatable of this list...