Regional Pilots, just plain stupid, or?

[canadflyau]

GuppyPuppy is 100% correct

My father flies for AA and the APA said if they were going to go for industry standard plus, then they would use Comairs contract b/c for the reasons stated by Guppy, they are the highest paid pilot group.

 

[wil]

Hey Dieterly- why don't you update that avatar and get off Lott's back. Maybe you could use former Klansman, Sen Robert Byrd (D)- you jerk-

 

[Ben Dover]

He's right

The only thing wrong with Deiterly's post is the phrase "stealing flying." After all it's a free market (well almost free) and companies can bid the work as they please. But he is 100% right regarding the double standard. Many of you have loudly criticized Mesa pilots for their recent contract. Yet, we as regional pilots have collectively agreed to work twice as hard, and earn a third as much as our main line brothers. As for me and my house, I'd rather work less and get paid more.

 

[LR25]

Ben, I am an ex regional flyer. When I was in class, I felt over qualified among my class mates. Except for a few, they all had a range of 700-1000 hours tt. A few had there temporary Multi ticket.

Im not bashing anybody, but when you say we "agreed" to work for less, I think that may be a little off.

What kind of experience did you have when you went to work?

What kind of experience did the mainliners have when they showed up to class?

By all means I'm not advocating the pay and conditions at the regional level, I was there, 14 hr duty, 7.99 in the cockhouse, but it is like another post said, apple to oranges.

And then theres the PFT thing, how do these people even start to negotiate pay, I mean come on.

If anybody here has PFTed in there career, they should exclude themselves from the debate. What leg do you have to stand on when it comes to pay?

 

[Ben Dover]

Im not bashing anybody, but when you say we "agreed" to work for less, I think that may be a little off.

LR25,
It sounds as if you believe experience should be the measure to determine pay. (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to have an intelligent conversation.) I don't disagree with that. And I agree that some INDIVIDUALS hired at the regional level lack experience and thereby deserve less pay.

A couple thoughts:
First in my earlier post I believe I used the word "collectively" when speaking of regional pilot work & pay. Though there may be INDIVIDUALS with less experience at the regionals, I stand by what I said. I believe as a group, regional pilots should work less and get paid more.

Secondly, the way our industry in structured experience doesn't always count for much. A very experienced pilot in a new job, is at the bottom of the seniority list right along with the 1000 hr newby. It's unfortunate, that experience doesn't count for more when starting a new job.

Finally, apples & oranges. It used to be apples and oranges and in some markets it still is. But increasingly, it's becoming oranges and tangerines. Translation: SkyWest flys into Sun Valley because Delta's aircraft can't get in there (apples & oranges). SkyWest flys into Idaho Falls around nine times a day replacing Delta's two or three 727's that used to fly there (oranges & tangerines). The distinction between regional & mainline isn't as clear as it used to be.

Cordially,
B. Dover

 

[luvthedc10]

Dieterly:

Since I am just a "baby jet" pilot, perhaps you would like to challenge the opinions of your fellow "big jet" pilots at United, American, Delta, etc, that were also my mentors, who told me to take this route of a regional pilot to attain my dream of a major job?? How sad is it that you started off flying 152's and actually made it to a 747 without understanding the position of a reagional guy/gal.

First off, is it my decision to take mainline flying??? Um, no, that would be the top guys in management. Do I have any power over their decisions? Um, no, cause if I did, I would support mainline flying since my dad works for a company in BK right now (not a pilot), and I much rather see him ok then myself since he has dedicated 25+ years and me only 2 1/2. He paid his dues, I have not, I accept that and if it were up to me, no one would be going through all of this right now, whether he comes from a regional or mainline.

If I wanted to settle for a sub-std contract, I would have stayed at my previous carrier and had no chance to upgrade and no chance to make any money. However, as one of those "Comair" pilots, I feel blessed to join the ranks of a group that wants to bring the bar up. Im sure there are people over at Mesa that are great guys, Im sure with Freedom they felt backed in a corner, but while the other regionals are trying to bring the bar up, they bring the movement back down in a way, which is what makes the guys who fight upset. In no way at Comair are we taking mainline routes and having a good time doing so, that would just be sick. We have grown in the past without doing so, so why take joy in seeing our friends at the majors loose their jobs? There may be some out there like that, but they are the minority. I fully support a plan that could benefit both sides for one reason in particular---A lot of guys are going to spend the rest of their careers at the regionals now, cause by the time things turn around, it won't make sense to leave. So, lets give the regional guy a chance to make a sensible living, that is why Mesa is a hot topic.

I realize I am young in this industry, but one thing is for sure, I am not a stupid regional pilot. You may have 10,000 hours but I think you are magically forgetting where you came from. I bet you were a kid with a dream as well, and how did you achieve that dream?? Was your company going to hire you with just flight instructor time? After interning for two majors, I specifically remember the head of hiring for both telling us to get out there and get 121 PIC time, just like many others had to do to become competitive. Two years ago there was non of this hype because there was movement out and people only had to suffer for a small number of years, but that has changed. It is time to stop fighting against one another already and work together so at least some type of bar is kept in which everyone feels somewhat valued as a professional.

There are many intelligent regional guys out there, just cause they fly little jets, that does not make them any lesser of a person. I guess I should just furlough myself and not fly anymore and have no chance to achieve my dream cause management is switchng the flying over to the regionals. Time to grow up.

 

[mullet]

You have been stealing flying from your mainline partners for years, while working with sub-standard contracts, at least compared to mainline.

responding to padding your logbook,

How many airlines guys lie on the "blocks off" times? Quite a few, at least at MESA when I was there...

Well, well, well, Dieterly a former MESA cadet!!
Not only was your post full of sh/t, so is your logbook!

10,000+ hours before or after your revisions???????????

 

[LR25]

I dont see where he posted again.(dieterly)

Hey Ben, agreed, When I was at PDT (ohh no props!!!) I didnt see much difference either between mailine and regional flying.

So when the J4J thing came up, I about blew a 50amp breaker, I done with that mess now, I did however enjoy my time there, just sad its all caving in.

I could give a sh!t about flying an RJ, just give the junkiest DASH you got and keep sending the pay.

Ohh well, probobly in the future, there wont be a distinction between the regionals and the mainlines except the far and few between BBJ, then I would definetely have an issue with the pay structure.



Side note:

Pray for the troops. Before my brother got on the KC-135 to go over there, I thanked him for what he was doing, he said I was the only person who had ever said that to him.

This is his second time in the desert.

 

[Beantown]

Pray for the troops. Before my brother got on the KC-135 to go over there, I thanked him for what he was doing, he said I was the only person who had ever said that to him.

LR25, I am praying for all our troops and all those caught in the middle. I will send a little extra prayer for your bro. If you talk to him soon let him know that we are all proud of him and the others. (also to keep his head down)

-Bean