Regional Pay

[AvroGuy]

What would be a fair wage for 35, 50, 70 seat regional jets/props. I always read about how low some are paid but haven't read about what we should get paid. After Taxes

 

[SennaP1]

If you don't know.......
Well you shouldn't be asking.

In all seriousness, I think it varies. What will the market bare?

Me. I'd like more. BUT I knew what I was going into.

 

[ex j-41]

More

It is so much more than just flying an airplane.
The difference in seats is a management tactic. What you have to
understand is the job consists of:

Sim Checks every 6 months or 12 months.
Medical: You fail you have no job.
200 nights a year in a hotel room. (Industrial park) Nothing to do.
Work holidays, weekends...
Airport Reserve/Reserve
15 hr days
Uniforms
Expensive food at airports. Don't forget the 10% off.
Commuting. And you have to commute because who is going to move for
a $20,000 a year and no job security?


This is just a short list of what the job entails. Just to pay someone
based on airplane size is wrong. Just to do the above items is to me worth
at least $35k then tack on the flying.
$22/hr to fly is managements way of telling the public we are overpaid.
I am surprised they don't pay us $100/hr but only for cruise flight above
18,000'. Then what would the public think? WOW you make $100/hr.....

 

[Steveair]

I think we should be paid at least more than the guy dumping the lav.

 

[psysix]

Just like JO says, regional pilots are overpaid. He says that he knows he pays the pilots at Mesa too much because he constantly has a huge stack of resumes on the table with pilots wanting to work there.

 

[ohplease!]

I think we should be paid at least more than the guy dumping the lav.

you do.

 

[jehtplane]

It is so much more than just flying an airplane.
The difference in seats is a management tactic. What you have to
understand is the job consists of:

Sim Checks every 6 months or 12 months.
Medical: You fail you have no job.
200 nights a year in a hotel room. (Industrial park) Nothing to do.
Work holidays, weekends...
Airport Reserve/Reserve
15 hr days
Uniforms
Expensive food at airports. Don't forget the 10% off.
Commuting. And you have to commute because who is going to move for
a $20,000 a year and no job security


This is just a short list of what the job entails. Just to pay someone
based on airplane size is wrong. Just to do the above items is to me worth
at least $35k then tack on the flying.
$22/hr to fly is managements way of telling the public we are overpaid.
I am surprised they don't pay us $100/hr but only for cruise flight above
18,000'. Then what would the public think? WOW you make $100/hr.....

Well this is a list of extreme's.

 

[CoATP]

Supply and demand. Capitalism at its finest. People will work for squat with a hope that they will someday get a payoff. You have to start on the road to get to the end. So the question is really "What will someone take to be in a job that is training for the next step in their career." If you pay a large wage you get into the contract to stay around issue -- which opens another LARGE can of worms.

For what $$ are you willing to do the job. The majority of people now say "very little" and it looks like there are folk behind them who will accept less. As long as the seats get filled its the right amount. When they cannot find people the price (our salary) will go up. Do your bit convince people to go to Ace truck driver school

 

[ex j-41]

Extreme?

The only thing extreme is the exageration of the pay. $22k is only possible if
you fly 1000 hrs a year. That is tough to do.

200 nights in a hotel?
Well 20 days a month at work is about 16/month in a hotel. That is
192 not counting days in crashpads.

Pay should include Quality of Life. If you give up something as valuable
as that then you should be rewarded fairly. But then we have ALPA and
nothing is right about that!


EAT THE YOUNG!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Let me tell you a story. These two guys named Wilbur and Orville invented an airplane in 1903. These first two pilots had to flip a coin to see who would fly the airplane. Already, they had twice the number of pilots they needed.

Nothing has changed in 102 years.

The secret to elevating our profession is collective bargaining. We have seen our profession fall on its face because our National Union, ALPA is no longer willing to hold the loose confederacy of MEC's in line and sees benefit in allowing alter ego competition to expand. Now we live in a World where pilots are at each other's throats to buy flying away from the other guy.

Flying does take a level of committment unlike any other career. First, if the President of the Airline gets fired, he seeks other opportunities with similar pay and benefits. If a pilot loses his job, they start over from the bottom. That usually means 10 days off a month, lower than minimum wage on an hourly basis and 300 to 380 hours away from home in a month. After 6 years at my airline, I sometimes see 11 days off in a month and more often than not, they try to junior man us on our days off. It is cheaper to over use fewer crewmembers than adequately staff and train an airline.

Then, when you upgrade you hold one Certificate that makes the airplane legal to fly. The Company holds the other. The Company will do anything to protect your Certificate. If anything happens while you are flying, your employer will do everything to pin it on you. I've seen it a big respectable carriers and fly by night operators. For example my father took a hit for flying with a unsealed medical kit rather than ground a 747 full of soldiers trying to return home from war. That airline was FedEx.

The flip side is that the act of flying is darn good fun. Breaking through cloud layers, climbing at 4,500 FPM is a hoot, even if you get out of bed at 04:15 to do it. Usually work stays at work and being a pilot is mostly monkey pull lever and a banana falls out of the slot. Most of this stuff is figured out for us and most of us don't have to work out on the ramp or figure out how to make money when gas goes up 240% in a year.

The issues have not changed much in the last 35 years. Pay is not what it used to be, but in large part, we are responsible for that. Don't vote for a sub standard contract, hold your representatives accountable. If they fail you, get them off union paid leave and put them back on the line. Duane Woerth sure needs to see the inside of the sim in my humble opinion.

 

[satpak77]

you could offer $15,000 a year for "a chance" to fly "new RJ's" and you would have lines out the door waiting to apply

sad sad sad

 

[BluDevAv8r]

The only thing extreme is the exageration of the pay. $22k is only possible if
you fly 1000 hrs a year. That is tough to do.

Not true...many contracts have significant soft time built into them. It isn't all about hard block hours flown. I won't fly anywhere near 1000 hours this year but I credited and got paid for 1300 hours in 2005.

200 nights in a hotel?
Well 20 days a month at work is about 16/month in a hotel. That is
192 not counting days in crashpads.

Pay should include Quality of Life. If you give up something as valuable
as that then you should be rewarded fairly. But then we have ALPA and
nothing is right about that!!!

You left out vacation months...where you don't fly nearly as much as you normally would in a typical month.

I fly 2-day trips with some day trips and some 3-day trips, have weekends off, and haven't spent anywhere near 190 nights in a hotel this year. In January I will spend 10 nights in a hotel and have 13 days off with weekends off. For the 2 or 3 months of the year that I have a week of vacation I will spend roughly 2 to 4 days in a hotel in those months.

For informational purposes, I bid number 160 out of 230 hard lines in EWR for XJT.

Those nights that I do spend in a hotel are spent in very nice hotel properties, depending on the length of the layover. For layovers under 12-14 hours we are typically in very nice hotels near the airport (fine by me for the short ones) and for those over 12-14 hours we are in the downtown area or near something to do like a mall or other attraction.

Sounds to me like some properties have better pay and working conditions than others.

-Neal

 

[Midnight Flyer]

It is so much more than just flying an airplane.
The difference in seats is a management tactic. What you have to
understand is the job consists of:

Sim Checks every 6 months or 12 months.
Medical: You fail you have no job.
200 nights a year in a hotel room. (Industrial park) Nothing to do.
Work holidays, weekends...
Airport Reserve/Reserve
15 hr days
Uniforms
Expensive food at airports. Don't forget the 10% off.
Commuting. And you have to commute because who is going to move for
a $20,000 a year and no job security?


This is just a short list of what the job entails. Just to pay someone
based on airplane size is wrong. Just to do the above items is to me worth
at least $35k then tack on the flying.
$22/hr to fly is managements way of telling the public we are overpaid.
I am surprised they don't pay us $100/hr but only for cruise flight above
18,000'. Then what would the public think? WOW you make $100/hr.....

See this is what's wrong with this industry. As long as pilots keep taking these regional jobs, the airlines will know they can continue to pay crap salaries because sombody is willing to do it for next to nothing.
After I got laid off from a pretty nice flying job, I received an offer from ASA and Eagle. Turned them both down after I found out it would cost me more to work there then it would to sit at home and collect unemployment. Heck, that way, at least I'd be home all the time.

 

[jehtplane]

See this is what's wrong with this industry. As long as pilots keep taking these regional jobs, the airlines will know they can continue to pay crap salaries because sombody is willing to do it for next to nothing.
After I got laid off from a pretty nice flying job, I received an offer from ASA and Eagle. Turned them both down after I found out it would cost me more to work there then it would to sit at home and collect unemployment. Heck, that way, at least I'd be home all the time.

Yes you start off at the bottom, it is called senoirity, do you expect to start off making 100 thousand dollars a year? What is Continental's first year pay again? And they are a Major. 200 nights in a hotel blah blah blah is extreme's. I can fly 3 on 4 off, that is 2 night's a week in a hotel, 8 night's a month, 96 night's a year. You start off at the bottom and you gain better schedules and pay as years go bye. That is the airlines! It is not for everyone.........

 

[jehtplane]

The only thing extreme is the exageration of the pay. $22k is only possible if
you fly 1000 hrs a year. That is tough to do.

200 nights in a hotel?
Well 20 days a month at work is about 16/month in a hotel. That is
192 not counting days in crashpads.

Pay should include Quality of Life. If you give up something as valuable
as that then you should be rewarded fairly. But then we have ALPA and
nothing is right about that!


EAT THE YOUNG!!!

Yes first year. If you commute that is your choice.

 

[ex j-41]

Nothing

When i interviewed i had no control over pay, time off, working holidays,
extra pay on holidays or anything.

I was given what was negotiated for me. I had no choice what so ever
in my "terms of employment" other than take it or leave it.
After spending $50k and 4 years instructing to say take the job and shove
it is not an option.
Quit blaming the "Regional Pilot" for taking the job. It was the integrity
of the negiotators that led to the low pay. I had no choice in my pay!

With that said why are the "jet for Jobs" pilots flying at regionals? 2/3 pay?
Why don't they just tell the airlines to shove it and go collect unemployment.
Cause they have too much invested and too much to lose by doing so.

This is a blatent failure by Alpa. Don't go blame a young pilot for taking
a step further in his/her career. He/She had no choice, and you know it.
This is a ALPA saying "My fault, your problem". It is so easy to blame
the new guy, come on ALPA grow some balls and admit that you sold us out!

 

[ex j-41]

Yes you start off at the bottom, it is called senoirity, do you expect to start off making 100 thousand dollars a year? What is Continental's first year pay again? And they are a Major. 200 nights in a hotel blah blah blah is extreme's. I can fly 3 on 4 off, that is 2 night's a week in a hotel, 8 night's a month, 96 night's a year. You start off at the bottom and you gain better schedules and pay as years go bye. That is the airlines! It is not for everyone.........

Just wait till you are at the bottom again at Jet Blue. When you are on
12 months of reserve, 10 days off, and trying to commute to JFK.
Lets talk then about QOL!

 

[Lil Jon]

What would be a fair wage for 35, 50, 70 seat regional jets/props. I always read about how low some are paid but haven't read about what we should get paid. After Taxes

how bout this for 50 seat salaries...

FO start at 35k with 1k increaseas each year
CA start at 65k " " " " "
plus some kind of profit sharing

i'd like more than this but it seems fairly reasonable, any one else care to share some numbers?

 

[DetoXJ]

When i interviewed i had no control over pay, time off, working holidays,
extra pay on holidays or anything.

I was given what was negotiated for me. I had no choice what so ever
in my "terms of employment" other than take it or leave it.
After spending $50k and 4 years instructing to say take the job and shove
it is not an option.
Quit blaming the "Regional Pilot" for taking the job. It was the integrity
of the negiotators that led to the low pay. I had no choice in my pay!

With that said why are the "jet for Jobs" pilots flying at regionals? 2/3 pay?
Why don't they just tell the airlines to shove it and go collect unemployment.
Cause they have too much invested and too much to lose by doing so.

This is a blatent failure by Alpa. Don't go blame a young pilot for taking
a step further in his/her career. He/She had no choice, and you know it.
This is a ALPA saying "My fault, your problem". It is so easy to blame
the new guy, come on ALPA grow some balls and admit that you sold us out!

What an idiot. Your the one who took the job. If you are so upset about the pay then why did you accept the position? Entry level pilots are a dime a dozen and thousands of CFI's are waiting inline to sellout the industry and replace you. If you don't like it, quit. You never should have accepted the job to begin with. Classic how he tries to blame the integrity of the negiotators. Clearly this is someone who really has no clue.

 

[ex j-41]

Unhuh

What an idiot. Your the one who took the job. If you are so upset about the pay then why did you accept the position? Entry level pilots are a dime a dozen and thousands of CFI's are waiting inline to sellout the industry and replace you. If you don't like it, quit. You never should have accepted the job to begin with. Classic how he tries to blame the integrity of the negiotators. Clearly this is someone who really has no clue.

So you are one of the ALPA idiots that blame pilots for taking a
job to feed their family.
Because i have a family to feed i don't have the luxary of being able to
"Quit". I do however have the integrity, intelligence and courage to not
let the future contracts sell out the bottom half. Unlike yourself. And i
enjoy my job. I really like it. I just feel that it is grossly underpaid.