Regional or Corporate?

[Wanna Fly!!]

Hello to all of you fellow aviators out there!!!

I have been reading posts on this board and have become addicted- really!

I am 36, work for a big corporate aircraft manufacturer and have decided to start flying! I have a degree in Aviation, have worked in aviation but want to follow my lifelong drream of flying- possibly for a new career. I see all of the positive and negative of flying regionals- but those who do it seem happy. Corporate- I don't know much about the minimums or money in it, but have contacts "inside the wire" in corporate. Making money is not a big deal to me, happiness and adventure are more for me. No commitments so the world is wide open.
With this in mind I am really looking for some insight as to training recommendations- MESA-ATP-Phoenix East-or buying a share of an aircraft- etc, and then either going on to the regional thing or trying to get someplace with the contacts that I have met in corporate. We all know networking is key and I am lucky there. So I would appreciate any and all comments you may have.

 

[logansun]

I'm going to be interested in hearing the responses. I'm an older aviator too just starting out. I've been researching and still weighing out my options. Because of my age, and were not old at all, I'm leaning towards an academy. Good luck, and your right, do what makes you happy!
Logan

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

logansun-

Hey thanks for the reply. I am also leaning the academy way to get it done quick, but don't know the best way to go. Definitely no PFT!! I want to go to the busiest but also a good one to probably instruct there to build time. I also hope to go to one that may have connections for interviews. Hopefully some people will read this and help us out!! Good luck!!

 

[Superpilot92]

Being a bit older i would probably go to ALL ATP and get your ratings quick. I did not go to all atp but they seem to train their guys and hook them up with job opportunities after instructing for a few months. Do some research on it and if your serious about it and work hard you could be working for a regional within a year. Corporate is all about who you know. I do not fly for corporate so dont know much about it. Good luck

 

[CapnVegetto]

All you guys have to ask yourselves, what do you want to do?

Do you want a set schedule, but to be gone half the month? Start out making no money but at the end of the rainbow have a six figure job and the ability to fly anywhere for free or really cheap?

Or do you want to be attached to a pager 24/7 for a while, and have to fly crappy jobs in the middle of the night, but at least make decent money to start out and be home a lot more? The end of the rainbow here is flying a G whiz for a fortune 50 company, gone about 12-15 days a month, six figure income, and staying in posh hotels in Europe.

If the first paragraph suits you, go regional. If the second paragraph suits you, go corporate.

Airlines, you'll fly a lot more per year (800-1000 hours), and you'll hardly ever spend enough time anywhere to do anything. You'll be gone from home at least half the month, probably more, and if you commute, your life sucks. The plus side is, you'll make more money, you'll have free flight benefits, and you have a union speaking for you (I don't know, that may be a con, too).

Corporate, the road is LONG, but worth it. You'll probably be home more, you're treated MUCH better on the road, and you have a LOT more free time. The bad part is, you'll never make as much money as you will at the airlines, (although the gap is not near as wide as it used to be, and getting smaller all the time), chances are you'll be tied to a pager for the majority of your career, (although if you find a good job, you won't be), and you don't get the free flight bennies, (although you do get hotel points out the yin-yang.)

I say go corporate, b/c it's what I did. I worked for the airlines for a year, and it was 11 months and 29 days too long. I hated it. Nothin against anyone that does it, it just wasn't for me. Maybe it's for you. But, if you've already got quite a few corporate contacts, you're WAAAAAY ahead of the game. Networking is how you get a corporate job.

Oh yeah, and people that say you need to go to an academy for quick ratings are FULL OF $HIT. I got an instrument, commercial, multi, and CFI in 6 months, simply by going to a local FBO, finding an instructor, and working my tail off at it. Academies will do the same thing, except they'll dikk you out of about twice the money. They all like to feed the 'oh our training is the highest quality' crap to you too. Bull$hit. Every single pilot passes the same checkride with the same standards. Except at an academy, most of the time you don't have to do your initial CFI with the FAA. Most of these places are just 'pilot factories', or 'ratings factories' as everyone calls them. They train you to pass a checkride, not to be a pilot. A local, old school instructor will give you MUCH better training. My instructor was a 12,000 hour Kingair pilot that instructed because he enjoyed it. I wouldn't discount local younger instructors, though. I HATED part 141, (taught under it briefly). Part 61 gives a lot more freedom to individualize training to teach an individual, not a number in a group of other numbers.

Bottom line, get ready for a lot of bullcrap, rejection, and wondering why the hell you got into this in the first place. The good news it, once you make it, it's worth every single little bit of crap you put up with and more. PM me with any questions. Good luck!!

 

[SigAV8R]

I'll chime in here too. I would recommend ATP (partly because I went there and they have an excellent program). You're done in 3 months (which is a huge benefit timewise) and you'll pay the EXACT amount for the program that is quoted to you. You won't get screwed like going the Academy route. Also, if you already have the connections for corporate you just need the ratings. IF someone is already going to give you the seat, you just need to get legal to occupy the seat. ATP will get you done and you'll be on your way faster than going through an academy or the FBO route.

Now as for corporate versus Airline, I think CV already summed it up. It's a personal preference. Although the one thing I will say may be an exception is if a corporate gig does any extended stays and the owners airline you home. Then you'll rack up the airline miles/points also (in addition to the hotels...just not as quickly).

 

[Goose Egg]

Just for the record, I'd really like to go corporate if I could. I just think the hands-on nature of it and the wide variety of destinations would be fun. Besides that, I have no desire whatsoever to commute. We'll see what shakes out though.

-Goose

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

Thanks Superpilot92- CapnVegetto- SigAV8R

Only problem is that going "AWAY" to ATP for training may kill my conncetions for the corporate gig. I talked to a GIV Capt. I know and was told 2500TT, 1500Multi, 750Turb Jet, and 100 Type. So that's a stretch. I guess that was all for the insurnace company. This makes me re-think that route if all companies are like that. He said time in "TYPE" was not always required, maybe Falcon time- or the like would be somewhat equivalent. I do like the fact of saving money and going local- get my own share of an a/c, then try to bulid while keeping contacts. But there is the multi time. EXPENSIVE!!!! So the ATP- or the like thing sounds better, plus the other fringe beneies like airline flight benefits. I already know there is no money here, but I've been rich and I've been poor (so to speak)- Didn't like poor but I had food, shelter, and clothing. The adventure is what I'm after. Never a dull moment- not sitting behind a desk "Prarie Doggin" all day long for what? A retirement plan? I'm not into the Dog and Pony show that society has us all wanting.

 

[SigAV8R]

Wanna Fly,

Well, if you like variety than corporate is definitely the way to go. Sorry if I misunderstood your post earlier. I thought you said you had a corp. gig lined up and you just needed to get the ratings to get into the seat. I still would advise ATP though. As it's been stated, it's a place you go to get your ratings and get on with your life. Kinda like a job at any regional airline. Get your time and move on to something better. Either route, you won't be getting to the "rich" side again anytime soon, so just enjoy the ride (so to speak).

 

[kingaira90]

no factory schools

Have to mirror what the other guys are saying about the blow smoke schools. I went to those places and got nothing extra to show for it except huge loans. Do it part 61 by your current home. If you can keep your job and fly fly fly on the evenings and weekends. If your current job pays well you might be able to do it with no or very little loan money, a HUGE help when you are making jack squat, later. If you need to tack on some multi time at the end and you can't find it locally, you can go to aviator in Ft Peirce on a vacation and tack on 100-200 hrs in a dutchess quick for $50hr.

If I had to do it over I wouldn't have moved to Floriday to do my ratings.

I have never flow corp, the opportunity hasn't presented itself yet. But good luck if you want to do that, keep the contacts you have and make more if you can.-kingaira90

oh and the no factory schools doesn't apply to ATP, heard good things about the speed and cost there. Although I wouldn't move to do that

 

[Yellow Snow]

I agree with Kingair, we started at the same "academy" at first and it was deplorable. All they wanted to do was milk you for money and you never got to fly because of too many students and no acft. Also no slight to some instructors on this site but when I found an instructor that had about 20,000 hrs at an FBO (he had been flying for forty years) the difference in flying skills I learned was night and day. If you can work at your training during the weekdays at a local FBO with good instructors who aren't biding time until they go to a regional you can get your ratings as fast or faster than at an academy. The biggest advantage is that you can stay locally and save a ton of money on housing. I have come to the point after being burned a couple of times that I don't trust any of the academies.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

kingaira90- Yellow Snow-

Thanks- wow, enlightening. The academies- MESA, Phoenix, etc. make things look so good. Like you can fly all kinds of hours and then walk right into a regional. The only drawback to where I live (Savannah, GA) there is only one flight school and they want 20,000 for a commercial. They are expensive. Other thing is the money. At least at a school you can get the loans and then pay them off. Here it's pay as you go. I'm thinking that the share in an A/C looks better every day. Once again-money up front though. I guess racking up credit cards for training ain't too bad. What about CFII and MEII? Thought's on those? For time building sake.

 

[kingaira90]

input

kingaira90- Yellow Snow-

Thanks- wow, enlightening. The academies- MESA, Phoenix, etc. make things look so good. Like you can fly all kinds of hours and then walk right into a regional. The only drawback to where I live (Savannah, GA) there is only one flight school and they want 20,000 for a commercial. They are expensive. Other thing is the money. At least at a school you can get the loans and then pay them off. Here it's pay as you go. I'm thinking that the share in an A/C looks better every day. Once again-money up front though. I guess racking up credit cards for training ain't too bad. What about CFII and MEII? Thought's on those? For time building sake.

I wish I would have gotten my instructor ratings, trying to get them while working a flying job now. Good for timebuilding. Unlike what some of the schools try to sell you on, it is well respected to be an instructor and it will lead into your next job. It is also an easy first job to get into, a good backup in case your company folds or furloughs (happend 2x in my short career), and can be a supplimental income after later. This is a volitile industry. GET THEM!!! and don't let them laps after you do.

The intrest on good credit cards WILL be lower than the intrest on loans you can get from places that do flight school loans. If you have a good paying job, work during the day and fly on nights and weekends. I have a buddy who worked full time and got his pvt-CFI in 9mo. It can be done!

20k for your pvt-comm doesn't sound too bad, am I missing something. The plane share could be really sweet! Some of my buddies from flight school and I wish we would have bought a plane, flown it a ton then sold it, would have saved money. Although if your partners are weekend fair weather flyers, and you fly 400hrs in 9mo, they might get bent. Be up front if you want to do that.

Lastly SAV isn't far from ATP at Jacksonville CRG right? a long commute I know but if you get your primary ratings at home then get your multi and instructor ratings in short courses at CRG then you would save more on hotel and food then you spend on gas. And you might be able to set up a job at ATP, which could yeild lots of time fast and lots of multi.

I know the temptation is HUGE to drop everything and just go. DON'T DO IT!!! Learn from My and Yellow Snow's mistakes. Do it by home, moving sucks. Don't do it if you don't have to. If you have any more questions feel free to PM me or post them here.-kingaira90

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

I agree with the moving thing and quitting a good job to do this. This is why I am posting here to get some info on "lessons learned" and hopefully do it in a way that works out ok. Since I am 36 though, and have read posts on getting hired near 40 is hard, I want to make the best choice. I do realize that it's all about hours and relationships though and hope to make it work.

Does anyone know about training in a Grumman AA5? Thinking about going in on one with some friends for initial training.

 

[Snakum]

and have read posts on getting hired near 40 is hard

In corporate anyway, I would have to say I disagree. I have personally discovered it is actually an asset. I've even been told that, word for word, by my part-time flying boss.



Minh

 

[kingaira90]

In corporate anyway, I would have to say I disagree. I have personally discovered it is actually an asset. I've even been told that, word for word, by my part-time flying boss.



Minh

and if you get 1200tt and go to a pt 135 place to build time, they don't care!

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

What do most companies think of getting A LOT of time in single engine A/C such as a 172? Do they accept it for the fact of flying or is it better to have various types flown like bonanza and higher performance? Same with Multi- various types or just the fact of flying a barn door with two props on it?

Would you all suggest MEII to build time?

 

[kingaira90]

the singles all blend together. I have over 1000 hrs in a 172, 800+ of which was doing traffic (vfr w/ very few practice approaches). Single time is just to get the hrs. When you are going for the multi job or t-prop or jet job the type of single enginge aircraft won't matter.

An mei can be good for time building, IF (big if) the place you are instructing at has a lot of multi students. That is why ATP can be a good instructing gig, lots of multi students. Although at you average fbo the multi probably sits a lot b/c most students at those places have primarily primary students. Remember average 3-15 hrs multi to get rating. Not a lot of time per student. Need lots of students.

 

[apcooper]

As for building ME time you could get the MEI and put ads in every local aviation publication and offer to ride/give instruction to an already rated ME pilot who is uncomfortable or rusty or give dual for the initial ME rating. If you do the former you might get to travel to some interesting destinations and make some good friends.

 

[pilotyip]

Do a search under "older", there was thread within the last month beating up this same subject. Not to put you off, but it is a quick way to get answers without waiting for responses

 

[CapnVegetto]

An MEI is pretty useful, if you're around an FBO where people buy Seneca's etc. B/c most of the time those guys will have to do 25 hours or so with an MEI in the right seat as an 'insurance check out' on their new bird. I got about 50 hours of multi that way.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

It all depends on who you work for....

I've done both 121 and 91 corporate. I didn't have one of those cake 91 jobs making $100k plus a year and flying 5 days a month, but it wasn't the worst job out there either...it was somewhere in the middle I guess. After 3 and a half years there I left to go 121, and so far I have been happy with my decision. All I can say is that corporate flying is very diverse....you cannot lump it all in one category as if its the same at every company. There are really really good 91 jobs out there with great pay, great benefits, nice aircraft, lots of days off, where you basically have to pinch yourself everyday to see if its really true. Then, across the street there can be another 91 outfit flying the same type of plane that is a living hell to work for. You have no life, no schedule, you're underpaid, and your 4 days off a month are spent sweeping floors and cutting grass at the hangar.

On the same token, the same can be said for airlines. Although I work for a regional airline, it is a reputable one with excellent maintenance and a good pilot contract with plenty of work rules. However, there are other airlines out there where every airplane you fly will have at least 5 MEL's, you will be junior manned at least 3 times a month, you will be cheated out of your pay, and overall treated like nothing more than a liability. If you're just building experience, do whatever you have to do and go elsewhere, but where you end up in the long term is all going to depend on the quality of the operation itself, not so much whether its "corporate" or "airline". Anyway, thats my 2 cents.