regional guy trying to learn about fractional world

[Diesel]

actually h2b i take offense.

I've written up more stuff while working at NJ than i ever would have when i worked charter or for a corporate owner.

When I work for NJ if it's broken it's broken. It didn't just break on the last flight in, or is operating intermitant but maybe will work just one last time.

At nj i don't have to worry about that. The owners won't be inconvienced because they will have another plane or even an upgrade. You can be sure that plane will be operating 100 percent because there is no incentive to fly broken airplanes.

Can you say the same for the corporate/charter flight? That was the hardest thing i had to learn when coming here that I'm not saving the company entirely by myself. I keep the company safe by not flying broken equipment and carrying writeups.

These are mechanical machines that break. Are you telling me that every flight you've flown has not had a problem? If that's the case i need to buy the plane you fly.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

You have to look at NetJets for what it really is... A HUGE CHARTER COMPANY... Nothing more, nothing less....

You just keep on telling yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to justify you're job. Many people who can afford it don't mind paying a little more to get rid of (clear throat) you and you're flight department. It's the ugly truth, but now that fractional has matured, most owners realize they don't miss the headaches of owning a flight department. Pilots get sick, who cares. Plane breaks, minor inconvenience as NetJets is sending in a replacement...oh boy, maybe I'll get the Falcon this time and avoid the fuel stop. Pilot wants kid's birthday off, don't feel bad for saying No now, not a thought anymore with fractional ownership. Sell the hangar and put the cash towards an upgrade, sounds good to me.

Many concerns are gone. We all have to admit it, and some like yourself have a hard time realizing what thousands already have, a better wheel has been made and those with the cash LOVE it! Early on it was hard to see people lose there jobs. But it's happening in the majors and many various flight departments. And if you don't make yourself and you're department more appealing than fractionals, you'll stand a good chance of eventually being cut. I'm glad to be here because daily I hear the sounds of nails being hammered into the coffins of the majors and various flight departments that just lost their luster when held up next to what an excellent fractional can offer.

It all comes down to this. Daily, several thousand of us pilots listen to the stories from our pax/fractional owners of why they made the switch and will never go back. We've heard it daily for year after year. It just means we are doing our job and no matter how much you crunch the numbers, it's still more than what you're able to offer. Best of luck to you.

 

[h25b]

actually h2b i take offense.

I've written up more stuff while working at NJ than i ever would have when i worked charter or for a corporate owner.

When I work for NJ if it's broken it's broken. It didn't just break on the last flight in, or is operating intermitant but maybe will work just one last time.

At nj i don't have to worry about that. The owners won't be inconvienced because they will have another plane or even an upgrade. You can be sure that plane will be operating 100 percent because there is no incentive to fly broken airplanes.

Can you say the same for the corporate/charter flight? That was the hardest thing i had to learn when coming here that I'm not saving the company entirely by myself. I keep the company safe by not flying broken equipment and carrying writeups.

These are mechanical machines that break. Are you telling me that every flight you've flown has not had a problem? If that's the case i need to buy the plane you fly.

I am not arguing with any of the points you are making. What you are describing is exactly the way things should be run. You and I know some don't do it this way. I can tell you for a fact that our little operation is run exactly how you describe it. After having worked for 2 Fortune 100 flight departments and now managing a small one on my own I have not run in to anything close to what you describe. If our airplane breaks, it's broken when and where it broke... Period.

And to the guy that is taking offense to me calling NetJets a large charter operation. I am only going by what you were all telling us a few months ago. Those were the exact words of many who were on here telling us all that we don't want to work there. But I guess that all changed overnight with the new CBA ???

Let us compare and contrast the "BrnJetFuel" 's of the past and present...

NJA is a place that had a chance gone bad. Management doesn't care about customer service and they are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Really a shame because there used to be a number of pilots that would have wanted to see this place succeed. NetJets bought a couple thousand pilots anxious to see the planes end up with respectable corporate outfits who would on day one pay double what most of the senior pilots make now. Not much to lose anymore and much more to gain. They either pull their heads out of thier ahrses and dump the ego trip or this place is dust.

You just keep on telling yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to justify you're job. Many people who can afford it don't mind paying a little more to get rid of (clear throat) you and you're flight department. It's the ugly truth, but now that fractional has matured, most owners realize they don't miss the headaches of owning a flight department. Pilots get sick, who cares. Plane breaks, minor inconvenience as NetJets is sending in a replacement...oh boy, maybe I'll get the Falcon this time and avoid the fuel stop. Pilot wants kid's birthday off, don't feel bad for saying No now, not a thought anymore with fractional ownership. Sell the hangar and put the cash towards an upgrade, sounds good to me.

Many concerns are gone. We all have to admit it, and some like yourself have a hard time realizing what thousands already have, a better wheel has been made and those with the cash LOVE it! Early on it was hard to see people lose there jobs. But it's happening in the majors and many various flight departments. And if you don't make yourself and you're department more appealing than fractionals, you'll stand a good chance of eventually being cut. I'm glad to be here because daily I hear the sounds of nails being hammered into the coffins of the majors and various flight departments that just lost their luster when held up next to what an excellent fractional can offer.

It all comes down to this. Daily, several thousand of us pilots listen to the stories from our pax/fractional owners of why they made the switch and will never go back. We've heard it daily for year after year. It just means we are doing our job and no matter how much you crunch the numbers, it's still more than what you're able to offer. Best of luck to you.

Wow...

I think some of you are trying argue a very moot point. Most corporate aircraft that ARE NOT flying 1000 hrs./yr. typically will give better than a 99% dispatch reliability... The only flight departments that NJA has shut down were ones that would've have been shut down for one reason or another regardless of NJA's existance... The only real beef I have with NJA in this matter is their sales peoples' predatory practices...

 

[Diesel]

h25b- I'm not pushing buttons just asking this question

When you're plane breaks do you feel a twinge of fear in your stomach? That the boss is going to be pissed?

When the plane breaks on me I get that little twinge in my stomach because i'm letting the company and the owner down. But then I realize that another plane will be on the way and the owners won't even notice other than a tail change.

Like you said utility goes a long way for if these planes are breaking or not.

 

[h25b]

h25b- I'm not pushing buttons just asking this question

When you're plane breaks do you feel a twinge of fear in your stomach? That the boss is going to be pissed?

When the plane breaks on me I get that little twinge in my stomach because i'm letting the company and the owner down. But then I realize that another plane will be on the way and the owners won't even notice other than a tail change.

Like you said utility goes a long way for if these planes are breaking or not.

I know the exact feeling you are talking about and it's one of the things you need to get over as a professional pilot. In my case, the boss DOES NOT WANT to go unless both the aircraft AND crew are 100% ready to go. We NEVER get questioned about a safety or mechanical decision. EVER. In fact a few months ago he called me just to tell me he appreciated what I was doing to save money on fuel but just wanted to make sure that we don't get so wrapped up in it that it would in any way compromise safety. In otherwords, if another few hundred pounds of $4.50/gal fuel makes you feel better then BUY IT !!!

I'm not saying that we've never MEL'd an item. In the entire last year we did so about 3 times. When we do it is only to get us home and to get it fixed. If the item has any impact on the flight then it is a NO GO item. We know the limitations of not having a backup airplane but the positives of having our own far outweigh the VERY few negatives. Of of the ways we downplay this is to operate low time aircraft under warranty.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

But I guess that all changed overnight with the new CBA ???

Let us compare and contrast the "BrnJetFuel" 's of the past and present...

... The only real beef I have with NJA in this matter is their sales peoples' predatory practices...

Uhhh, well yeah! Getting more than a 60% pay raise overnight really did help. Getting well into six digits a year to fly and BE THE CUSTOMER SERVICE this place was built on gives NetJets a fighting chance in spite of it's management. Finally having professional compensation for delivering professional service enables one to pull the line harder while still slipping in the company crap.

Trust me when I say that NOT ONE pilot here has much use for the sleazy used car salesman types who peddle our services. Our industry really deserves much better than what is out there. Apparently inbreeding is the only way to get one of their jobs and until it changes, I don't expect to see anyone with the spine or morality to qualify it as a job that isn't more or less a straight shot to the internal bowels of the earth when they die. Whew, long sentance. Good night.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

In my case, the boss DOES NOT WANT to go unless both the aircraft AND crew are 100% ready to go. We NEVER get questioned about a safety or mechanical decision. EVER.

Consider yourself fortunate and in an enviable and rare flight department. What you're describing is rare and uncommon with most small, privately owned operators. It's because of that rarity that most pilots really enjoy the safety and job security here at NetJets where we aren't subject to one passenger or one owner and his/her daily whims or intolerances.

On a different note. What are you're plans working for what sounds like a wonderful individual owner, when he/if he decides to go fractional (can't always convince them not too, sometimes their best friends do it for our sales people) or shuts it down? I've got lot's of friends who have had their flight departments taken over by larger companies and let them go. And then others who's owner was simply quite older than the pilots and ended not flying (or paying the checks) as long as the pilot needed. Many of these guys get a new job every couple/few years with no choice in the matter. Nothing sucks more than working for a great owner and then having to work for a Kamikaze superman. Sometimes it is easier to join than fight. Just my $0.02

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I see a lot of Netjets Citations sitting at the GSO Citation service center and I have heard a lot of bad things about that place. My boss KNOWS that our aircraft is going to the most knowledgeable service centers available.

Citation Service Centers are like Burger King. If you've been to one, you've been to them all.

I see NJA Citations sitting at every Service Center in America! Thats because NetJets owns about 300 of them.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I'm glad to be here because daily I hear the sounds of nails being hammered into the coffins of the majors and various flight departments that just lost their luster when held up next to what an excellent fractional can offer.

And for some strange reason I see a twinkle in your eye when you say that. Another mans pain could someday be your own.

I was there Sept. 13th with no job, no check, and a 1 year old...

 

[BrnJetFuel]

And for some strange reason I see a twinkle in your eye when you say that. Another mans pain could someday be your own.

I was there Sept. 13th with no job, no check, and a 1 year old...

I can appreciate that. This industry SUCKS BIG TIME! But now that I'm deeply in it, I'm glad they would have to hack for along time before they reached my shoes. Not by skill, just date of hire and no where else to go. But when someone comes up with a better way of hauling the elite and swollen wallet types around, yes I'll be back where I was before I fell into this. Looking for a job at McDonalds. No twinkle here. Perhaps you meant that urge to tinkle about 3 hours in and several cups of coffee later. That I gots!