Regional FOs going to Fracs?

[Go Fly]

Since most fractionals require an ATP to apply I was wondering how many regional FO's are going out and paying for their ATP so that they can make the jump? If so, where did you go? Are there regional FOs out there that are wanting to go to a frac but not applying because of the ATP requirement?

 

[imacdog]

I got my ATP before going to the airlines and for other reasons, but I went through All ATPS and thought they did a pretty good job. I wasn't very instrument or multi current at the time so I took the 10 hour course and felt they did a very good job getting me back up to speed and preparing me for the checkride. All the sim time I wanted was included in the package and every hour in the airplane was pretty intense, so when I took my checkride I felt I truly earned it. I am waiting things out where I am but if they don't turn out for the better then I will be looking at the fractional companies.

 

[shamrock]

As a regional FO without an ATP I fit into the category you mention. I was gung-ho to try to get on with NetJets back in January and I started investigating ATP training. I basically came up with an "All-ATPs" type program or the local FBO as options. The FBO path was more expensive but with my lack of recent piston/prop experience I was also concerned that getting through a quicky ATP program might end up being just as costly.

I've backed off on NetJets for now because of the schedules, the cost of paying for my ATP, and the fact that I'd have to move to one of the few gateways/bases, but I'm interested in what other guys (or girls) have done.

 

[XJohXJ]

Yes, NetJets was the place to go until they instituted their "gateway city" policy. To bad we all didn't go earlier. Now, because I'm sick of moving at my own expense for a job that may or may not work out, they are not even on my list of places to consider. "Do you wany fries with your order sir?"

 

[shamrock]

Don't get me wrong, I live in Atlanta so I'm not opposed to moving! I'd just prefer the old NetJets gateway system. My biggest hang up is the 7&7 schedule, but if I had more options to live somewhere I really liked and the ability to move between domiciles/bases/gateways/whatever I'd be more interested.

 

[jtf]

If you look at the benefits and pay scales (which don't include the overtime, extended day, or holiday pay) along with 15 days off a month and 3 weeks off for each week of vacaction you take, you will notice that NetJets just might be worth paying for a move or driving a ways to get to work twice a month. If you already commute, how long from the time you leave your home until you get to work does it actually usually take? A long drive sounds pretty crumby, but it is actually a lot faster than most people's airline commutes. I am making less at NetJets until I upgrade since I was a 145 captain before, but I'll make nearly the same overall on FO pay here if I include the benefits (free health, dental, vision, loss of medical, and short and long term disability which would cost well over $5000 at my old regional for a family) and the companies 50% match on 410K. 7 and 7 isn't for everyone, but if you can do 7 and 7, it is a career job that is light years better than any regional. Check out the threads on the fractionals board for more specifics on NJ if you are interested. First year is wayyyyy better than any regional FO pay (it's hard to make less than 50K first year unless you get lost in the system and don't do IOE for 6 months- though you are still getting your salary and having many months off, just no pay above base salary which is higher than any regional FO pay to begin with).

 

[Catnhat]

I got my ATP before going to the airlines and for other reasons, but I went through All ATPS and thought they did a pretty good job. I wasn't very instrument or multi current at the time so I took the 10 hour course and felt they did a very good job getting me back up to speed and preparing me for the checkride. All the sim time I wanted was included in the package and every hour in the airplane was pretty intense, so when I took my checkride I felt I truly earned it. I am waiting things out where I am but if they don't turn out for the better then I will be looking at the fractional companies.

Don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into an All-ATPs discussion, but which ATP location did you use? I get the sense that not all have the "all the sim time I wanted" option. Anybody have opinions on which All-ATPs are best?

 

[imacdog]

I went to the one in Tacoma, WA. It had only recently started operating so it might have been they just happened to have plenty of open time available for it as opposed to other locations.

 

[shamrock]

......Check out the threads on the fractionals board for more specifics on NJ if you are interested. First year is wayyyyy better than any regional FO pay (it's hard to make less than 50K first year unless you get lost in the system and don't do IOE for 6 months- though you are still getting your salary and having many months off, just no pay above base salary which is higher than any regional FO pay to begin with).

Good info jtf. I have a few friends at NetJets so I've seen the lifestyle and back in January when I was looking at NetJets I had a few guys take the time to PM me about the 7&7. It's just the combination of the 7&7 (who knows, maybe I could do it), having to pay for my ATP, and having less than desirable (IMHO) bases to choose from is holding me back. Give me an option of a base towards the Gulf or SC/GA coast and I'll jump at the chance.

I'm definitely ready for a change though.

 

[XJohXJ]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be such a bummer on my last post. Just got the Mesaba Flu.... However, yes, I would love to go to Net Jets should I ever have the opportunity, just not at any of their current gateway cities. Would they ever open up more cities? Letting pilots stay home based was such a great thing, why'd they have to close those doors?

 

[johndt]

Give me an option of a base towards the Gulf or SC/GA coast and I'll jump at the chance.

How's south Florida? PBI is pretty close.

 

[SEVEN]

Letting pilots stay home based was such a great thing, why'd they have to close those doors?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[XJohXJ]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes, of course, the reason for all the crappy things happing to pilots these days.

 

[gordon24]

All ATPS for me and then to NJA. I don't look back and never will.

 

[Go Fly]

Thanks for all the great replys guys. I was actually pretty lucky in that I jumped at a chance to get my ATP while still at the regionals and was able to get on with NetJets pre-contract. So yes I have home basing.

I opened this thread because I have a friend who maintains a current CFI. He was considering buying a small multi-engine airplane and looking for ways to help pay for it. I told him that there may be some regional FOs that would be interested in doing some ATP training so I thought I'd do some market research on here. After reading your replys though it looks like the domicile thing is a much bigger issue than not having an ATP. Sure wish there was a way I could help you all out with that one.

By the way, NetJets is so much better than life at the regionals it's unbelievable. I didn't think I'd like the 7 and 7 either but now that I'm on it I love it. I'm making twice as much as I was as a regional FO and working less. Not too bad of a deal.

 

[aeronautic1]

local flight school

nobody cares where you get your ATP. I look at all of the avenues listed above and just went to the school where I got all my other ratings and paid about $3000 including the check ride in a Duchess. To date, I have not seen a pilot certificate that has ALL ATPS next to the rating.

I must admit, after flying an EFIS airplane for a year and going back to round panel, it was very interesting. Remember when we flew for fun?

 

[imacdog]

After reading your replys though it looks like the domicile thing is a much bigger issue than not having an ATP. Sure wish there was a way I could help you all out with that one.

When you don't get airline travel benefits, home basing can be a huge issue. Why work for someone if I'm not going to like where I live?

 

[glasspilot]

There are other places / fracs out there than NetJets. The biggest problem with NetJets isn't their gateway cities. It's that if you're hired there you're hired as 2,375 of 2,375. How long does that guy have to wait to upgrade? I can't imagine haveing to sling gear that long.

Disclaimer:

The above statements are just my opinion. Not bashing NJI in any way. The actual number of pilots on the NJI seniority list may vary from the above posted numbers. (In fact, I just guessed at them) Fly safe.

 

[Go Fly]

Well I don't mind slinging gear for a while as long as I'm gettin paid enough. Actually with benefits and soft pay I'm making more as a first year FO at NetJets than I would as a Captain at the last regional I was at with a much better quality of life. Also, while I would tell most people that upgrades are running four to five years, in actuality, if things continue as they are now, I'll be upgrading this time next year. That would put my upgrade time at two years - not too bad. I'm not counting on that but the numbers are working that way right now. But they are always subject to change.

By the way, we are talking about NJA not NJI. They are two different seniority lists.

 

[jtf]

NJA keeps approximately 2/3 of the pilot list as Captains for maximum flexability. The seniority list is getting close to 2500 and we will probably hire close to 500 for this year and they are calling for the same for at least another year. Most likely at least 200 will retire when they get their back pay towards the end of this year. There are lots of older pilots here who won't last all that much longer and there are literally hundreds of airplanes on order. Nobody can be sure how long it will take to upgrade, but when you can do almost as well in the right seat here as the left seat at most of the regionals and have half the month off right away, there is some good incentive for regional FOs to get their ATP and come on over. How long will it be at their current regionals slinging gear? How long will they be captains at a regional before getting on to a better job? The domiciles aren't great, but the job is worth it to me and the hundreds of other post contract hires. Also NJI is separate from NJA and has many fewer pilots, better pay, and home basing for all.