Regional career possible?

[greyhound]

In a business that is used to seeing pilots work for three to four years then move on before having to pay them more money. How will the regionals react when all of a sudden more and more people stay, therefore having to pay higher and higher wages to people who stay longer? Something they are not really used to.

Will this become like those jobs that once you get paid too much (in management's eyes), they will try to give you the boot?
Or is it not really a concern?

 

[ACE]

Not a concern. As long as you are part of a good union and a stong pilot group.

 

[Vorleron]

Not a concern. As long as you are part of a good union and a stong pilot group.

AMEN!

 

[Cadillac]

How will the regionals react when all of a sudden more and more people stay, therefore having to pay higher and higher wages to people who stay longer?

After reading most of the threads on this site, I wonder if management's strategty at most of the regionals is to make the quality of life so bad that the pilots get frustrated and quit the profession, therefore eliminating the problem of paying higher wages to the lifers.

But seriously, if mainline jobs are being eliminated and RJ's are taking over, how many RJ's can you have before the cost of the jets, fuel, and pilot's salaries for all those RJ's make it less affordable than 1 B-757 on the same route?

I'm wondering if the contracts start getting better, will the flying start to shift back to mainline jobs?

To try to answer the original question at the top of the thread, I think we have seen the regionals react by attempting to open alter-ego operations without unions such as Freedumb and Republick where they can keep wages low. Or by putting the company into bankruptcy and cancelling pensions like the majors have been doing recently. Retirement?! HA! Back to work dogs!

 

[climbhappy]

regional issues

Hasn't it been documented that its more profitable to fly a 757 full 500 miles than three RJs?

what happens when demand picks back up, and the rjs , whose sole existence was to replace aging turboprops, suddenly becomes unable to handle demand, and the carriers start going back to the desert and doing "C" checks on a bunch of old metal?

 

[WhiteCloud]

if mainline jobs are being eliminated and RJ's are taking over, how many RJ's can you have before the cost of the jets, fuel, and pilot's salaries for all those RJ's make it less affordable than 1 B-757 on the same route?

I'm wondering if the contracts start getting better, will the flying start to shift back to mainline jobs?

Hi Caddilac, My crystal ball on the airline industry future has been off more than it's been on so.....for what it's worth....The thing that makes the RJ's desirable are they can be full several times a day going to a destination instead of one flight at one time. The alter ego airline scam that some airlines are using to break unions needs to be addressed by pilot groups in EVERY negotiation from now on. I see (mystical music in background) a merging of regional and major routes and also a merging of pilot jobs to where a regional becomes a small major (Comair) and the major (Delta) shrinks and ultimately merge into one reality because there won't be that much difference. Right now the regionals are being "used" by mainline companies as the equivalent of "alter ego" airlines to drive down the quality of the job. That's got to stop too. But how?

 

[Old Crow]

The major, ie. Delta Alpa, must recognize the benefits of ending the outsourcing because they too are being outsourced.

The regional level pilot union is just along for the ride until then.
Delta Connection Inc. can reduce a great deal of overhead by becoming one company. Efficiency would improve through the sharing of assests. We don't need two management groups when only one is required.

Oh... I don't remember, was it the ATR or the E120 that was doing the Canada/Mexico/California/Colorado/Utah/ trips. Get real...

 

[WhiteCloud]

The major, ie. Delta Alpa, must recognize the benefits of ending the outsourcing because they too are being outsourced.

The regional level pilot union is just along for the ride until then.
Delta Connection Inc. can reduce a great deal of overhead by becoming one company. Efficiency would improve through the sharing of assests. We don't need two management groups when only one is required.

Oh... I don't remember, was it the ATR or the E120 that was doing the Canada/Mexico/California/Colorado/Utah/ trips. Get real...

Good post! Especially the part about not needing two management groups. In reality they might need 1 1/2 of what they currently have. But that would be a good way to cut costs.

 

[bobbysamd]

Regional career

In a business that is used to seeing pilots work for three to four years then move on before having to pay them more money. How will the regionals react when all of a sudden more and more people stay, therefore having to pay higher and higher wages to people who stay longer?

I do not believe that the regionals really and truly want careerists. They want, and expect, people to leave after a few years. In other words, if you tell them sincerely at the interview that you want to make them your career you might not get the job.

It boils down to money. The lifers would eventually top out at scale, which would raise the companies' salary costs and, worse, the lifers would vest in their retirement programs, which would raise their expenses even more and decrease the bottom line. They do not want to be stuck paying pensions to their retirees.

With my understanding and experience with the regional airline management mindsight, it would not surprise me one iota if they would try to force out tenured pilots. At least with a union, there are some protections.

 

[climbhappy]

good point bobbysamd!

I agree, heretofore, Mgt never planned for the obselescense of the hub and spoke system. they expected pilots to move and therefore not cause them to fund the pensions.....Or in the case of US Airways, don't fund it at all, and cry BK. Or in Carty's case , just save the hides of the senior mgrs'.


What concerns me are the tactics that Mgt would employ to force out senior guys. Maybe imposing compensation contracts with each pilot, whereby , just like the NFL, you could be waived after ten years!

With so little jobs , I'm afraid many would sign anything to fly a jet to further their personal goals and THAT'S exactly what's undermining all the collective bargaining right now along with a poor economy with which to negotiate in.

 

[Vorleron]

Witn few exceptions, it always must be remembered that Airline Management has ONE (1) goal:

Qualify for their exorbatent bonuses. If that means making the airline look profitable, or artificially inflating the stock prices, so be it.

Actually running an airline is second. ALWAYS.

Examples: NWA, UAL, US Air all have drastically underfunded pensions.

Continental: GB got a 11+ million dollar salary in 2002, while having over 500 pilots on furlough and the company was losing money.

Exeptions that I can think of:

SWA, 30 years of profitability and a very conservative and effective growth plan.

Skywest 34 years of growth and never a furlough in sight.

Jetblue: only time will tell.

There are others I'm sure, but these come to mind for me...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Swing and a miss,
Typical pilots though, we all would like to think we are the reason flying costs so much. Do some basic math, here you go:
Look at a major airlines total employee count. Look at a regional airline employee total count. What percentage of the above are pilots? How bout 10-20%, depending where you look. Now look at the same job description for a major vs regional(ie ramper, mechanic, f/a, gate agent, ect).
The pay in some cases is less than 1/2 at the regional for the same job. Now you can see why the major wants the regional to carry it's pax. REGIONAL AIRLINES are CHEAP operations, and only getting cheaper.
Wake up!
PBR

 

[Rogue5]

Along the same lines (thinking of pilot pay in terms of operating costs), a CRJ CPT gave me a great analogy one night over beers at the hotel lounge:

Think of crew pay compared to total operating cost of A/C. For a short while I flew right seat charter ops where a B200 was billed at $650 an hour and a BeechJet at close to $1000. Imagine operating cost of a Regional Jet (per hour), and then compare that to the, maybe, $100 per hour you are paying the flight crew COMBINED.

Regional pilot pay is a VERY small part of the expense of the total airline operation.

 

[greyhound]

Just what I thought.

I guess it can work out for a few, but all this tells me it is every pilot's obligation to improve contracts at regionals.

If contracts would go up in value, I can see more flying going back to the majors where most people want to be.

If it keeps getting cheaper to just give it to the regionals, then the flying won't go back to the big leagues.

 

[cl-65link]

Pension? What pension. No such animal at the regionals. Certainly not company-funded.