regional airlines are hiring briskly!

[utahpilot]

This is cut from an email I recently got from PanAm IFA, how I got on their list, I have no idea. But, man! Guess my head has been under a rock, golly gee, I had no idea things were so great!

"While you may have heard that the 'major' airlines are struggling, what you may not have heard is how they're actually shifting many of their routes to their 'regional' airline partners, who can operate more cost effectively. What does this mean to you? It means that the regional airlines are hiring briskly again!"


please.


UP

 

[Jetjockey]

If you had sell $35,000+ in aviation training, would you tell people the truth??? Here's how it would really sound.

After graduation, you can plan on working long hours at minimum pay flight instructing. That's of course if you're lucky enough to find a job as a full-time intstructor. After two years of flight instructing, you may be close to realistic regional airline hring qualifications of 1500 TT, and 150-500 ME. Did I mention that there are over 8,000 professionals out of work from the ranks of major airlines who have thousands of hours including jet time??? Not to mention the professionals who are furloughed from other regional airlines....No, oh don't worry, there's an impending pilot shortage. (Kit Darby)

So lets say you do manage to land a regional airline job. The contracts at such carriers like Mesa ensure that the career expectations remain low for "commuter airlines". How low?? Let's say in the area of $18,000. Oh, don't worry...this is just a stepping stone. To where, I'm not sure. Maybe at one point this was true. At one point UAL had over 10,000 pilots. So, after having earned a degree ($25,000), and flight training ($35,000) for a grand total of $60,000, you can earn what a high-school drop ot earns at wal-mart, or McDonalds. Are you ready to sign-up yet??????

I love flying, but there's no way i'd ever choose this career path again. Someone needs to spread the reality of this industry to the people still in college. Change majors ASAP. There are 50 careers I can think of that pay way better right out of college. Trust me, the glory days of aviation are long gone, and it gets worse every year.

 

[SpocksBeard]

While all that is of course true, I still don't want to do anything else. Right now I get to fly every day and don't have to pay for it. Granted I have to work 365 days a year to barely make 18,000 with no benefits, but it's still better than any alternative I can think of right now. I can be as pessimistic as the next guy, but I recently got a quasi-job offer at a freight company that kind of put things into perspective for me. The run was 6 days a week, never sleeping in you own bed, all for about 6 hours of flight time a week, with a 18 month training contract. The job has it's good points, and I still might end up pursuing it, but the lifestyle would absolutely suck. I'm just glad I'm not furloughed or something. Keep on keepin on I guess.

 

[WhiteCloud]

While all that is of course true, I still don't want to do anything else. Right now I get to fly every day and don't have to pay for it. Granted I have to work 365 days a year to barely make 18,000 with no benefits, but it's still better than any alternative I can think of right now. I can be as pessimistic as the next guy, but I recently got a quasi-job offer at a freight company that kind of put things into perspective for me. The run was 6 days a week, never sleeping in you own bed, all for about 6 hours of flight time a week, with a 18 month training contract. The job has it's good points, and I still might end up pursuing it, but the lifestyle would absolutely suck. I'm just glad I'm not furloughed or something. Keep on keepin on I guess.

I'm just guessing that you are under 30 and don't have a family yet. If that's the case I'd say "Why not?" If others are depending on you I'd say doing that kind of job is a big mistake unless it's just short term. Good luck with it.

 

[Jetjockey]

I'd say you already spent your money, so it's too late for you. I'm speaking more to the freshman in college, or someone thinking of starting this career.

By the way, it's so easy to be optimistic when your young and new in this career. I was a 25 year old SA-227 captain, a AVR-146 captain by 30, hired by United at 32, and now out on the street. When you have a family to support, and a mortgage to pay, let me know how optimistic you are making those wages. Worse yet, no flying job. Remember, everytime you hop in a plane to 'fly for free' as you state it, you are making someone money. This isn't a hobby.

Cheers

 

[WrightAvia]

Schedule an Interview at the school...

waste their time and money, let them buy you lunch. Ask them about the upcoming pilot shortage and when they blow smoke up your ass...go "CRACKER....PUHLEEEEZE!"

 

[SpocksBeard]

Let me set the record straight - I DON'T FLY FOR FREE!! (and I never will). For the sake of discussion though, don't you think a freshman just getting into this industry might have a shot at hitting the industry on it's upswing??? You're right about it being too late for me - money spent and gone.

 

[WrightAvia]

hey spocksbeard....

"CRACKER....PUHLEEEEZE!"

All kidding asside...no schit, I heard this this weekend. My friend's brother said that he is being held back in the pool at ATA, because over at Chicago Express they have nobody in their ranks with the balls to upgrade to CAPTAIN. "CRACKER....PUHLEEEEZE!"

I can't believe it. I almost would be insistant for getting hired as an off the street Captain over there, but I got it too danged good flying TURBINE singles. I'm 43 years young, with 5,000 plus hours. 1,700 multi and almost all but 100 something of my total hours are PIC and better than half of my total hours are 135....with plenty of 135 letters. Should I pester the REGIONAL to hire me and live on the same pay and gather up a hundred fold in responsibility, to live in an appartment with a bunch of dudes or stick to the caravan flying, which consists of 10 days a month on, three day weekends and home every night in my own bed?

Sometimes it's not age that makes you stay out of the game, sometimes it's the fact that you like to drop 3 or 5 grand into your habit of collecting expensive machine guns.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Let me set the record straight - I DON'T FLY FOR FREE!! (and I never will). For the sake of discussion though, don't you think a freshman just getting into this industry might have a shot at hitting the industry on it's upswing??? You're right about it being too late for me - money spent and gone.

Sure, a young person could get into the business of flying airplanes and hit the timing perfectly and end up with a good job in a reasonable amount of time. My problem is with all these (supposedly) authoritative publications that trot out the upside so they can sell their products but leave out the very realistic downside. The cycles are extremely large and unpredictable. Having other interests is mandatory in my book for young people who want to fly for a living. Jetjockey makes a lot of accurate points.

 

[eightdriver]

" I get to fly everyday" Give me a friggin break!! This sounds like either a UND prodigy or a Mesa wh@re in training. Wake up dude, flying just isn't that great anymore. The sooner you realize this the quicker you can get on with your life.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

"I work 365 days a year to barely make 18,000 dolars and have no benefits and I LOVE IT"

Aint that great.....

This may get old when your mom kicks you out of the basement and you get a day off and maybe (big maybe) meet a chik who wants to have dinner (without mom). What do you do if your bicycle gets a flat? How do you get to the airport to fly?

 

[SpocksBeard]

All I was trying to say guys is that I'm lucky to be where I am. That's all. It's hard to not be negative in this industry right now so I was trying to be positive. I'm not a "UND prodigy" either. I chose to pay a reasonable amount of money for my training and not bury myself in debt up to my eyeballs. I can be pessimistic too. A lot of the time I hate my job. I get sh1t on just like everybody else in this business and it sucks. Oh well.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Comair, Chautauqua and Mesa ARE hiring quite a bit.

Once the UAL situation is more stabilized, the UAL feeders will be hiring briskly, I believe. ACA, SkyWest and AirWI were hiring before the UAL de-stabilization occured.

Other airlines like TSA (PSA, etc.) have approved J4J with USAir, and should start hiring for the new ERJs soon.

Cliff
GRB

 

[suk_sqz_bng_blo]

"flying just isn't that great anymore"

" I get to fly everyday" Give me a friggin break!! This sounds like either a UND prodigy or a Mesa wh@re in training. Wake up dude, flying just isn't that great anymore. The sooner you realize this the quicker you can get on with your life.

whos wh@re were you before you made it captain? if flying isnt that great anymore why dont you get out?

 

[smellthejeta]

Hi!

Comair, Chautauqua and Mesa ARE hiring quite a bit.

Once the UAL situation is more stabilized, the UAL feeders will be hiring briskly, I believe. ACA, SkyWest and AirWI were hiring before the UAL de-stabilization occured.

Other airlines like TSA (PSA, etc.) have approved J4J with USAir, and should start hiring for the new ERJs soon.

Cliff
GRB

The UAL feeders will hire only if there is more growth. ACA has stated that they expect 0 growth on the UA side of things for the near future. Mike Davis left the company for "family reasons." One of the rumors I heard was that with the STS program suspended, the performance numbers were tanking and he was getting a lot of flack for that. ACA also will have 200 pilots on the street by years end, and if you assume staffing at 4.5 crews/9 pilots per plane, that's the equivalent of 22 planes that they expected to have flying for and don't. That's a lot of slack to pick up. Make no mistake, ACA WAS profiting at UA's expense with very little SYSTEM growth. That has to balance out sooner or later, and they may have already reached that equilibrium point.

With 200 furloughs to absorb, little to no expected growth, and little to no attrition, I think it will be quite awhile before the company starts hiring again.

 

[Varig]

Some of us have caught the industry in the upswing in the late 90s and know are out of a job. Who can say that won't happen again in the future. Jetjockey is 100% right.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Flying is a great job and I enjoy it. I flight instructed for over a year working six days a week and later flew freight for a year and a half on really lousy schedules and pay. It was fun and okay at the time. I was single (dating my wife now) and it worked out but I was getting really burned out fast. Now I'm at a regional with respectable pay and work rules. I can make ends meet as a 2-3 year FO renting an apartment for my wife and new baby. But I can't do this for all of my career and I hope to upgrade sometime and buy a house sometime too. You can fly a crappy schedule with lousy pay for awhile but it can't last. You won't be able to do it. With all of the regional airlines talking of pay cuts at Mesa-like payrates I don't see how any of us can afford to live. What will happen is this industry will be full of a bunch of young single guys that don't care about living in a crash pad and making minimum wage. If that's the case then many of us will be forced to do something else for a living to provide for our families. You've got to "pay your dues" in this industry but you can't be paying your dues forever. (No offense intended to any single guy living in a crash pad. I was one once but I'm glad I'm not anymore.)

 

[WhiteCloud]

What will happen is this industry will be full of a bunch of young single guys that don't care about living in a crash pad and making minimum wage. If that's the case then many of us will be forced to do something else for a living to provide for our families. You've got to "pay your dues" in this industry but you can't be paying your dues forever. (No offense intended to any single guy living in a crash pad. I was one once but I'm glad I'm not anymore.)

You make many good points SWCRJP. Crash pad life is fine while you're young and don't have to provide for others. A short term scene like that is reasonable but, you have to see a decent future for your family or it's irresponsible to continue.

 

[Cargoboy]

Way to put it Skywest:

I myself stuck in the cargo position now and with a family and mortgage. I want to get to the regionals and between my wife and I I think we can make ends meet, but like you said it has to be a means to an end. If there is no lite at the end of the tunnell why go further in problems and stress.
I will tell you all of you this right now. If we don't stand up as pilots and stop just bitching to one another about poor pay and never being home and how much we spend on our educations and how we are all whores. Then we are all fools and full of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. We need to stand up together and push hard for better contracts and better schedules. Make the airline do its job and figure out what it should be doing to start making more money and give them a kick in the butt. Instead of turning it around and making us suffer worse and worse. If we are going to survive or make a descent living, (and I am not talking about a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** load of money, but descent enough so I don't have to work two jobs), we need to act and work together. I am not in the regionals or majors but one step shy of being there. Cargo running for a year now and working two other jobs and just making it, but when and if I make it to the regionals I can expect more of the same suffereing if we don't work together.
Flying is a great job. It is A LOT of responsibility for those two pilots to be in charge of. If the Airlines continue to short pay us they won't have any good pilots left. Who will want a job you can't survive on and then watch your aviation accidents go up. And I don't want to hear them say that the economy is the reason they are suffering. Half of these airlines were suffering well before the 9/11 attacks and were spinning around the drain of disaster long before that happened.
Think about it and talk with whom you work for and with other pilots to see what you can do to make your job more secure and to grow and get what is well deserving to us who worked so hard for this dream.
Good luck felles and I hope to be sitting next to one of you someday and proud to be there.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
All the above is right, the regionals work conditions suck for a reason. TURNOVER!
If the job sucks just enough so that the single, crashpadder w/no life can stand it, until they get married, have a kid. Poof not enough money to survive(gotta have medical for the wife and kid), the 4-5th year Cpt. says enough and moves on to something else. Our company relied on turnover to control payroll costs, through controlled attrition. If any of you are thinking it's got to get better wake up and smell your roommates socks. This industry downturn still has a long way to slide and us at the regionals are already closer to the bottom than most, we are the bottom. Oh yeah, for all you that say "If you hate it so much why don't you leave?" I am looking at some previous options as we speak.
Will the last one at the regionals please turn the lights and heat off on your way out?
PBR