Regional Airlinepilots Union

[trainerjet]

Pilot group against pilot group. Sounds like the company is already winning!

Of course they are, and if this board is any indication, most pilots are too stupid and/or self-absorbed to see it.

 

[FSB99]

ALPA does not do anything for anyone. They provide the tools and resources for independent MEC's to negotiatiate thier own contracts. If your company has a crappy contract it is a reflection of your negotiating committee and your pilot group, not ALPA.

this needs to be said again, although from reading some of the replies here, my reposting this insight will be in vain.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Catlitter,
1) you and your RJDC are not going to acomplish $hit in 2003 or 2004, 2005 etc....
2) You are either a scab or a scab in the making.
3) ALPA is growing and getting stronger everyday, they have learned their lesson in the 80's.
4) the statements you are making are straight from the union busting handbook, heard it all before.
5)Dont complain about the 1.95%, im sure you more than make up for it from what you recieve from Harrison and Ford.


United we stand with our Union, ALPA
Easy it is to see through your colors. You still need much training young darthscab. The darkside is no match for ALPA.

 

[surplus1]

This is a good thread, please go on. With every post I learn more about why "regional pilots" get what they get from "their" union, ALPA.

Sometime, when those of you that appreciate the "financial, legal and political resourses", that you allegedly get from the ALPA come to understand how those resources are used by the ALPA, you might have a different perspective.

I'm not advocating a "regional pilots union", but I would advocate an "airline pilots union", something that we do not now have.

There are reasons why the APA pilots, the SWAPA pilots, the IPA pilots and others do not belong to ALPA. Some might call it foolish, others know it is wise.

As for the idea that indvidual MEC's are autonomous and exclusively responsible for their own lot, that is no more than a lack of knowledge about how ALPA works, how it is structured and why. There is a reason why ALPA operates with a unicameral system; it is no accident. There is a reason why ALPA is structured without checks and balances; it is no accident. There is a reason why ALPA representational dollars are allocated as they are; it is not accident. There's a reason why ALPA's legal department and outside law firm is set up as it is; it is no accident. There is a reason why ALPA's voting mechanisms are structured as they are; it is no accident. There is a reason why ALPA's Executive Council is structured as it is; it is no accident.

There is no "conspiracy" because there is no need for one. The power of those in power is absolute; they do not need to conspire when they merely have to exercise their unlimited power. The "executive branch" is not bridled by the burden of "oversight" and there is no judicial system. Law (policy) is both made, administered, and judged, by the same people, as a consequence of which they have become more infallible than the Pope, for it is they and they alone who decide the limits of their own infallibility. The system is deliberately designed to keep it so. The conflicts of interest are inherent in the structure. The structure cannot be changed without the consent of those that created it, for to do so would require that they give up their absolute power. This, to quote ALPA's current President, "they will never do."

ALPA is operated and controlled by five of the 42 airlines that allegedly "belong". They are Delta, United, Northwest, USAirways and more recently Continental who are lords and masters of all they survey. Federal Express (recently rejoined) is lord and master of the freight haulers. The Canadians, within limits, are controlled by the "Canada Board" which until recently was dominated by Canadien ... the only "major" of the lot. [Now that the Canada Board is run by "regional pilots", fear not ways will be found to ensure that it does not interfere with the powers that be ... until such time as a "merger" can be effected with the ACPA and the "status" of the Canada Board restored to that of the ALPA structure. You can bet all your marbles that there would never have been a "merger" with our Canadian friends if both Air Canada and Canadien had left CALPA before the merger.]

ALPA's "National Officers" are in fact no longer "elected" by ALPA's members. Officially, of course they are, but realistically they are appointed by the Big Five. The last real "election" was that of J. Randolph Babbitt (first term) and the rivalry came so close to resulting in UAL leaving ALPA, that we now select and elect by consensus of "the five". It is no accident that ALPA's national officers all come from one of the five. It is also no accident or coincidence that each of the "big four" get one of the offices.

When the balance of power within the Excutive Council challenged by the growth of one or more of the small carriers, the big carriers simply change the structure and the method of selection of EVP's to ensure that they cannot be challenged and their power remains secure.

ALPA is a political animal and those airlines in charge of the animal have done and will continue to do whatever is required to ensure that their absolute control of the organization is not threatened. After the potential threat resulting from the Babbitt election nearly resulted in the exodus of UAL, even the once arch enemies of DAL/UAL decided to kiss and make up, less both of them wind up without power. It is far better to "share" power among four or five adversaries, than it is to expose your power to a decision made by 40 or 42 member airlines and risk being left out. That they will never do again.

As much as I dislke the current evolution of the ALPA, I can't define what a "regional airline" really is and therfor would have trouble determining who would have membership in a "union for regional pilots". However, I could easily support a union for airlines with less than a given number of members each.

As long as the ALPA's present structure remains unchanged, there is really no place within the ALPA for airlines like Spirit, Comair, Eagle, Express Jet, Air Tran, or even SouthWest. We're just "hangers on". ALPA's true purpose today is NOT the representation of airline pilots. It is the representation of the pilots of the Mega (Network) carriers. The Big Five. If AA could be convince to rejoin, they would also "belong". Even Alaska which has been in the ALPA for a very long time, doesn't "belong" any more. They hang on to tradition, but they have no real voice. ALPA is not longer what ALPA used to be.

In the process of industry evolution ALPA tried to adjust and attempted to embrace "all airline pilots" and to become "THE PILOTS UNION". While that slogan represents a great "vision" it has not been realized because those who have power do not really want to share it, they simply want the ability to exercise more political power by increasing the number of members they control.

It's a viscious circle, but I think the timing for a separate union is premature. In a few years, it may be right.

 

[Obi-Wan]

RJDC= Managements/Union busting lawfirm's bitch.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Well,
It appears that the Jet-A has been thrown on the fire, now. My follow up question is, out of 1100+ views, are there truly only 100 airline pilots voting.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

TOP

 

[PBRstreetgang]

TOP

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA does not do anything for anyone. They provide the tools and resources for independent MEC's to negotiatiate thier own contracts. If your company has a crappy contract it is a reflection of your negotiating committee and your pilot group, not ALPA.

Can you give an example of how ALPA has underminded the efforts of your MEC?

Why yes I can. Delta operates Delta Connection as an integrated transportation system. ASA and Comair are parts of Delta Airlines. All flying, wages and working conditions are controlled by Delta management.

Delta management has agreed to negotiate with anyone ALPA sends to the bargaining table.

However ALPA will not allow the Comair, or ASA, MEC's to negotiate with Delta management. It is ALPA's position that ASA's MEC may only negotiate with the puppet management team at ASA who does not control the flying, the wages, or working conditions at the "ASA division."

ALPA's reasoning is the opposite of the position they argued at American Eagle and CC Air. The difference for ASA pilots is that we are within the realm of control excercised by the Delta MEC. The Delta bargaining group does not want the ASA pilots to negotiate with Delta because real scope and job protections for ALPA members at ASA would possibly interfere with something the Delta pilots might want - so the union is "hijacked" by one MEC to weaken another MEC. Heck, my union will not allow my MEC to even negotiate with my employer over issues of my wages and working conditions we are locked out.

The subject of concessionary bargaining is now coming up at Delta. As the ASA MEC is trying to negotiate our next contrac the Delta MEC is calling to reduce the amount of any pay cuts they might have to take by spreading the cuts to other working groups.

To Delta management a dollar is a dollar. They do not care if it is an ASA dollar, or a Comair, or a Delta dollar. ALPA is our exclusive bargaining agent. When Delta proposes a 30% cut, ALPA proposes a smaller cut - with the difference being offset by cuts from the ASA and Comair pilots.

Also, by limiting us by block hours while at the same time allowing alter ego airline operations, ALPA has set off the "race for the bottom" as we all must compete against eachother by lowering our wages to get flying.

We do not need a separate union to do battle with ALPA - that would simply weaken both of us. We do need to take back control of ALPA and have the organization operate under the law, without allowing one MEC to use the union to take from other, less powerful, MEC's. Allowing the big MEC's full control of this union is destroying the union and the industry.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Catlitter,
1) you and your RJDC are not going to acomplish $hit in 2003 or 2004, 2005 etc....

Well, we don't have jets for jobs on the Delta property and we are getting the airplanes on firm order when I was hired. Sounds like the deterrent effect of the RJDC has been some what effective.

Originally posted by Obi-Wan 2) You are either a scab or a scab in the making.
3) ALPA is growing and getting stronger everyday, they have learned their lesson in the 80's.[/B]

What the heck are you talking about? You bedwetting, bugger eating, mouth breathing idiot - in the eighties ALPA was broken by scabs at Continental and Eastern. Those scabs were welcomed back into the union by Duane Woerth with cake and ice cream when Continental was enticed back. Not only did ALPA fully forgive the scabs, no one was required to pay back dues and in fact the scabs were given inducements to re-join.

ALPA is not "stronger." The predatory actions of the mainline MEC's and rampant destruction of jobs has triggered a civil war in our union and the better orgainized Comair pilots are armed pretty effectively with the largest and most significant litigation in the union's history going to open Court. Further, ALPA is hemmoraging money at the moment. Bargaining is the highest expense for the union (next to a strike) and due to concessions and bankruptcy almost every group in ALPA is in negotiations at the same time. With fewer large mainline paychecks and those being reduced by 30% the gross drain on ALPA's funds is like water coming through the hull of the Titanic. Of course ALPA does not know how to do anything on the cheap, still holds meetings on yachts and is probably out spending the RJDC by a factor of 10. It is a high price for maintaining an illegitimate apartied oligarchy.

The lesson from the beginning of commercial aviation is to come together as one group, to stand strong against allowing your company to run an alter ego air carrier right through your scope blockade. With ALPA's new definition of "operational integration" how can anyone be a scab? The union does not recognize the rights of their own members to flying that they perform.