FlyDeltasJets
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Regional Airlinepilots Union
- Thread starter PBRstreetgang
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Mr. Butthead voice- Please I thought piloting a aircraft required attention to detail. I understood your rebuttal after I noticed your nametag. I realized a long time ago the essence of true superiority. My crew was waiting in a crew van at the hotel to drive to the A/P when the Delta contingent strolled down to the lobby. The fine attired superior Captain looked in the van and stated to the driver. " We don't ride with other crews". He had the look of a person who had swallowed a kitty litter box. The driver said fine. Closed the doors, jumped in and left the "Superior ones" curbside. We tipped that fine man well. I see your training is progressing in "Superior Airmen" fashion.
RJDC in 2003. They will help Alpa figure it out.
"Saddle up Mr Van driver, the Delta crew rides solo. "
RJDC in 2003. They will help Alpa figure it out.
"Saddle up Mr Van driver, the Delta crew rides solo. "
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
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Let's see, a regional pilot's union would:
1. Abandon ALPA's legal, financial and political resources.
2. Fight with zeal to get increasingly larger aircraft onto regional payscales as management cheers from the bleachers. Today 70 seaters, tommorow 777s. "We'll only fly the A380 at 50 seat rates for 18 months, then we'll negotiate in good faith."
3. Jettison any chance of single seniority lists within each airline brand.
4. Trade relationships that can be made to work (Cal, Calex) for downrgiht acidic and destructive enmity (AA, AE). Mainline/regional relationships aren't always peachy, UsAir, Delta, etc, but at least the reps show up to talk to each other.
Yippee, where do I sign up for this abortion? Somebody has a great idea: "Lets divide the union." Well then it isn't a union anymore, is it. It would be just fantastic if regional pilots would crack open a book on labor relations or economics just once, instead of gleaning all so-called wisdom from similarly ignorant coworkers in the cockpit and on the bloody internet. The past is bound to repeat itself. Start here: "Hard Landing", Thomas Petzinger. "Flying the Line", vols I and II, and "The Airline Pilots," George Hopkins. "Confessions of a Union Buster," Martin Jay Levitt. "Collision with Collusion" J.T. Bertrand. "Macroeconomics," McGraw-Hill.
1. Abandon ALPA's legal, financial and political resources.
2. Fight with zeal to get increasingly larger aircraft onto regional payscales as management cheers from the bleachers. Today 70 seaters, tommorow 777s. "We'll only fly the A380 at 50 seat rates for 18 months, then we'll negotiate in good faith."
3. Jettison any chance of single seniority lists within each airline brand.
4. Trade relationships that can be made to work (Cal, Calex) for downrgiht acidic and destructive enmity (AA, AE). Mainline/regional relationships aren't always peachy, UsAir, Delta, etc, but at least the reps show up to talk to each other.
Yippee, where do I sign up for this abortion? Somebody has a great idea: "Lets divide the union." Well then it isn't a union anymore, is it. It would be just fantastic if regional pilots would crack open a book on labor relations or economics just once, instead of gleaning all so-called wisdom from similarly ignorant coworkers in the cockpit and on the bloody internet. The past is bound to repeat itself. Start here: "Hard Landing", Thomas Petzinger. "Flying the Line", vols I and II, and "The Airline Pilots," George Hopkins. "Confessions of a Union Buster," Martin Jay Levitt. "Collision with Collusion" J.T. Bertrand. "Macroeconomics," McGraw-Hill.
Lets take a look beautiful-
Your statement-
1. Abandon ALPA's legal, financial and political resources.
Reply- I've experienced Alpa legal at work, friends like that you don't need enemies. Financial you say. 1.95% for JFJ's. I pass on that to. Political resources- I believe PAC's are ALL corruption in a veiled form. Alpa is a perfect fit on that point.
2. Fight with zeal to get increasingly larger aircraft onto regional payscales as management cheers from the bleachers. Today 70 seater's, tomorrow 777s. "We'll only fly the A380 at 50 seat rates for 18 months, then we'll negotiate in good faith."
Your fraternal mindspeak is showing- Why doesn't Alpa take a stand of all pilots are equal and stand on this line of defense. Sure would make it difficult to bargain with someone else's career though for Mainline gain, so Alpa wouldn't do that.
3. Jettison any chance of single seniority lists within each airline brand.
PLEEEEEESE- That would require a leadership role. You are joking aren't you? A mainline 4 year pilot becoming junior to a 25 year "Commuter Trash" substandard pilot? Are one better a military pilot required to sit right seat in a commuter? Hurry to the Emergency room before it's to late.
4. Trade relationships that can be made to work (Cal, Calex) for downright acidic and destructive enmity (AA, AE). Mainline/regional relationships aren't always peachy, UsAir, Delta, etc, but at least the reps show up to talk to each other.
Talk to each other- The MEC's which represent the "Commuter Trash" go much further than talk. Our MECC is going steady with our mainline MECC with Alpa National supplying the money for those vigorous sessions. Too bad the "Commuter Trash" line pilot receives a peck on the cheek. Alpa is well versed in these interludes. Alg's ex MECC is a prime example of a perfect romance and communication partner. He made it to the big "Administrator Cathouse". Without him just think where ALG would be these day's?
The men who are described in "Flying the Line 1 & 2" had character. The few I knew from the book looked upon Alpa today as a shell of what it was. Started with Duffy and has reached a level of self serving with Worthless that it has redefined the meaning of No leadership. More like the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Worthless".
Your statement-
1. Abandon ALPA's legal, financial and political resources.
Reply- I've experienced Alpa legal at work, friends like that you don't need enemies. Financial you say. 1.95% for JFJ's. I pass on that to. Political resources- I believe PAC's are ALL corruption in a veiled form. Alpa is a perfect fit on that point.
2. Fight with zeal to get increasingly larger aircraft onto regional payscales as management cheers from the bleachers. Today 70 seater's, tomorrow 777s. "We'll only fly the A380 at 50 seat rates for 18 months, then we'll negotiate in good faith."
Your fraternal mindspeak is showing- Why doesn't Alpa take a stand of all pilots are equal and stand on this line of defense. Sure would make it difficult to bargain with someone else's career though for Mainline gain, so Alpa wouldn't do that.
3. Jettison any chance of single seniority lists within each airline brand.
PLEEEEEESE- That would require a leadership role. You are joking aren't you? A mainline 4 year pilot becoming junior to a 25 year "Commuter Trash" substandard pilot? Are one better a military pilot required to sit right seat in a commuter? Hurry to the Emergency room before it's to late.
4. Trade relationships that can be made to work (Cal, Calex) for downright acidic and destructive enmity (AA, AE). Mainline/regional relationships aren't always peachy, UsAir, Delta, etc, but at least the reps show up to talk to each other.
Talk to each other- The MEC's which represent the "Commuter Trash" go much further than talk. Our MECC is going steady with our mainline MECC with Alpa National supplying the money for those vigorous sessions. Too bad the "Commuter Trash" line pilot receives a peck on the cheek. Alpa is well versed in these interludes. Alg's ex MECC is a prime example of a perfect romance and communication partner. He made it to the big "Administrator Cathouse". Without him just think where ALG would be these day's?
The men who are described in "Flying the Line 1 & 2" had character. The few I knew from the book looked upon Alpa today as a shell of what it was. Started with Duffy and has reached a level of self serving with Worthless that it has redefined the meaning of No leadership. More like the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Worthless".
FlyDeltasJets
Well-known member
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- Posts
- 664
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 2,308
Originally posted by Catbird:
I've experienced Alpa legal at work, friends like that you don't need enemies. Financial you say. 1.95% for JFJ's. I pass on that to. Political resources- I believe PAC's are ALL corruption in a veiled form. Alpa is a perfect fit on that point.
First of all, ALPA isn't on trial here. The question is would a separate union benefit regional pilots. Nobody asked if they should be the moral standard bearer for all western civilization. Your dues rate has no bearing on what kind of deals your MEC agrees to. That's faulty logic. By "financial resources" I was leaning towrds strike assements, and the like. I can guarantee that our Teamsters local does not have a strike pay fund set up, ready to pull the trigger should we walk. Of course PACs are veiled corruption, else what's the point? AFL/CIOs support of the DNC is particularly repulsive. But it does accomplish some goals. Age 60 was defeated, thank goodness. Otherwise we'd all be sentenced to another 6 years of this.
Your fraternal mindspeak is showing- Why doesn't Alpa take a stand of all pilots are equal and stand on this line of defense. Sure would make it difficult to bargain with someone else's career though for Mainline gain, so Alpa wouldn't do that.
Is "mindspeak" an Orwellian word? Anyway, it would be great if this was the stand that was taken. ALPA hasn't done enough in this area. But how will irrevocably branding ourselves with "Regional Pilots Local 132" in anyway effect the caste system? If anything a separate union would strengthen that stereotype.
3. Jettison any chance of single seniority lists within each airline brand.
PLEEEEEESE- That would require a leadership role. You are joking aren't you? A mainline 4 year pilot becoming junior to a 25 year "Commuter Trash" substandard pilot? Are one better a military pilot required to sit right seat in a commuter? Hurry to the Emergency room before it's to late.
Ever heard of a fence? SSL would not be a seamless, everybody's happy, lets sing kumbaya event. But with a little thought and planning, most of the parties could be made somewhat happy most of the time. More importantly it's not about the individual pilot, it's about improving the structure of the industry in future years. And what was your solution again?
Talk to each other- The MEC's which represent the "Commuter Trash" go much further than talk. Our MECC is going steady with our mainline MECC with Alpa National supplying the money for those vigorous sessions. Too bad the "Commuter Trash" line pilot receives a peck on the cheek. Alpa is well versed in these interludes. Alg's ex MECC is a prime example of a perfect romance and communication partner. He made it to the big "Administrator Cathouse". Without him just think where ALG would be these day's?
I already noted that the USAirways case is not a shining example. What do you want, a Purple Heart? Like I said, read some of letter3.org's stuff for a wonderful depiction of a happy family. You get J4J, not really a fantastic deal for the wholly owned pilots. My condolences. But at Eagle the pilots are just as flushed, and there aren't promises of future growth, and they weren't given the choice, which is in contrast to most of the Airways carriers. Communication within the brand is the only way to avoid or mitigate one group shafting the other.
Kicking over the checkers board becasue you're losing, even if the game was rigged, accomplishes nothing. Creating a renegade union with an identity based solely on "not being mainline" is about as productive.
I've experienced Alpa legal at work, friends like that you don't need enemies. Financial you say. 1.95% for JFJ's. I pass on that to. Political resources- I believe PAC's are ALL corruption in a veiled form. Alpa is a perfect fit on that point.
First of all, ALPA isn't on trial here. The question is would a separate union benefit regional pilots. Nobody asked if they should be the moral standard bearer for all western civilization. Your dues rate has no bearing on what kind of deals your MEC agrees to. That's faulty logic. By "financial resources" I was leaning towrds strike assements, and the like. I can guarantee that our Teamsters local does not have a strike pay fund set up, ready to pull the trigger should we walk. Of course PACs are veiled corruption, else what's the point? AFL/CIOs support of the DNC is particularly repulsive. But it does accomplish some goals. Age 60 was defeated, thank goodness. Otherwise we'd all be sentenced to another 6 years of this.
Your fraternal mindspeak is showing- Why doesn't Alpa take a stand of all pilots are equal and stand on this line of defense. Sure would make it difficult to bargain with someone else's career though for Mainline gain, so Alpa wouldn't do that.
Is "mindspeak" an Orwellian word? Anyway, it would be great if this was the stand that was taken. ALPA hasn't done enough in this area. But how will irrevocably branding ourselves with "Regional Pilots Local 132" in anyway effect the caste system? If anything a separate union would strengthen that stereotype.
3. Jettison any chance of single seniority lists within each airline brand.
PLEEEEEESE- That would require a leadership role. You are joking aren't you? A mainline 4 year pilot becoming junior to a 25 year "Commuter Trash" substandard pilot? Are one better a military pilot required to sit right seat in a commuter? Hurry to the Emergency room before it's to late.
Ever heard of a fence? SSL would not be a seamless, everybody's happy, lets sing kumbaya event. But with a little thought and planning, most of the parties could be made somewhat happy most of the time. More importantly it's not about the individual pilot, it's about improving the structure of the industry in future years. And what was your solution again?
Talk to each other- The MEC's which represent the "Commuter Trash" go much further than talk. Our MECC is going steady with our mainline MECC with Alpa National supplying the money for those vigorous sessions. Too bad the "Commuter Trash" line pilot receives a peck on the cheek. Alpa is well versed in these interludes. Alg's ex MECC is a prime example of a perfect romance and communication partner. He made it to the big "Administrator Cathouse". Without him just think where ALG would be these day's?
I already noted that the USAirways case is not a shining example. What do you want, a Purple Heart? Like I said, read some of letter3.org's stuff for a wonderful depiction of a happy family. You get J4J, not really a fantastic deal for the wholly owned pilots. My condolences. But at Eagle the pilots are just as flushed, and there aren't promises of future growth, and they weren't given the choice, which is in contrast to most of the Airways carriers. Communication within the brand is the only way to avoid or mitigate one group shafting the other.
Kicking over the checkers board becasue you're losing, even if the game was rigged, accomplishes nothing. Creating a renegade union with an identity based solely on "not being mainline" is about as productive.
As you have stated " Its all in the attitude". I gladly gave Delta pilots the jump for years before they had a reciprocal agreement. Always heard the explanation that it wasn't there fault they had a exclusive jump it was managements hardheadedness. Reminded me of ALL Luftwaffe pilots ALWAYS stating they flew on the Russian front. It's hard to understand why folks would lump all piles together but I guess it's just human nature after you have experienced the "Attitude" for years. Maybe they were pioneers in todays "Me" generation.
Ms Cardinal- Your entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I do know that Alpo will sell Mesaba, Eagle, and any other Commuter down the river for a song. They are exhibiting it everyday. If you believe a commuter pilot will continue to pay to be raped by Alpo thats fine vote to accept or maintain there representation. It will be a cold day in hell before I pay dues or a assessment so that a mainline MEC can expand their "Scope Provisions" without having all effective parties at the table with public disclosure. I have heard the confidentiality clause and the party line concerning Legal help, Individual MEC negotiation, and other babble. Unfortunately Duane the Worthless signs the papers so it all rest at his throne. If he accepts predatory bargaining on a selective basis he's in violation of the Alpa By Laws. He knows it, and Alpa legal is trying to defend it in the RJDC class action Lawsuit. That's the reason for a Regional Pilots Association. Will it be better than Alpa? Who knows until you try it. For a large number of "Commuter" or Small, Small/Medium, Medium/Small, Tiny/Small almost Large or what ever Alpo renames aircraft and pilots it is fraud as represented today.
Ms. Cardinal- I don't desire a Purple Heart, you said that. I do need the sharp hot poker removed from my rear. It was applied by the fraternal brothers and sisters wearing a smile and asking for money. In fact they were babbling about Legal representation and Flow Thru more that 20 years ago when the first burning sensation was experienced. I pointed out the AlpO" Merger Policy" but unfortunatly they choose the alternative of collusion and control with managment and a advancement of the "Me" concept to a higher level. Today we are experiencing a twisting of the hot poker.
RJDC in 2003
RJDC in 2003
trainerjet
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DoinTime
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I recall when Mesa was able to secure the scope provisions in their new contract that it was called a success on the part of regional pilots. Albeit at a heavy price. Why wasn't Freedom allowed to participate in the negotiations on that scope? How about CCAir? If US Airways had the scope that Mesa does there would be no wholly owned or any independent contractors. Scopeing your operation is a good thing. Otherwise management is free to break it up and sell it to the lowest bidder.
It must be nice to live your life so cluelessly under a double standard.
bvt1151
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We all know ALPA would get rid of every regional pilot if it meant more income for the union. However, its just this kind of ruthlessness that would make a separate regional union a disaster. The only thing protecting regional pilots now is the legal system. ALPA can't officially "screw" the regional guys in favor of the major pilots because they are supposed to equally represent everyone. If we went and created a separate union, it wouldn't last very long, because there wouldn't be any of us left after ALPA used their famous "bulldozer" policy. We would have no protection against the #1 threat to the regional airline pilot's career, ALPA.
Take a good look at what happened to Eagle, and ask yourself if ALPA would do the same to each and every one of us if we split.
So we don't get fair representation while we're a part of ALPA, but if we separate, they'll eat us alive.
Today's word is, "conundrum."
Take a good look at what happened to Eagle, and ask yourself if ALPA would do the same to each and every one of us if we split.
So we don't get fair representation while we're a part of ALPA, but if we separate, they'll eat us alive.
Today's word is, "conundrum."
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