? regarding log books

[modecontrol]

interview ? so to speak.

if i have went back and logged all my time since day 1 on a computer program...will i be able to show just the print outs of all my time or will certain if not all companies want to see a logbook as well.

hope i explained this well enough..

basically will a downloaded print out be enough or do i need an original logbook?

 

[Toy Soldier]

Not having inteviewed, I would suspect that you should do BOTH. The PC printout will probably be a nice touch, however, ALWAYS keep your logbooks current, neat, and ACCURATE. I have seen posts where the interviewee stated that the PC report worked great... But then, others wanted to see logbooks.....

 

[Speedtree]

Aviation tends to be a conservative profession and I don't think we have graduated to accepting PC based logbooks on their own. Lots of pilots use them now and they are great for breaking down times for those sometimes complicated airline grids but your logbook is an official document which is what most if not all airlines want to see. (I am not a recruiter so I can't say for sure, this is just my opinion based on observation) I try to take the safest and most advantageous way of doing things like this so having a traditional logbook can only help you. Not having one could hurt you.

 

[350DRIVER]

It is much much more professional and conservative to bring with you just the logbook itself, not pages and pages and pages of computer print outs on half decent rugged paper. I for one would not be overly happy if I was on the interview board and someone showed up with pages and pages of "computer paper" and neglected to bring the actual logbook to the interview. One must also keep in mind that as a student pilot (pertaining to solo flight) you MUST have the logbook onboard the aircraft at all times WITH the "appropriate" endorsements, etc. Have you ever met a student pilot with just a cd or computer paper on the plane in place of the "logbook"- ?? < I sure have not.....So even though you obviously can prove your flight times, MOST people on the interview board if not all are going to be looking for a "real life" logbook.

I have not met many pilots who use a computerized logbook, mostwho do are well advanced into a career and still keep a regular logbook as well.

good luck

3 5 0

 

[Sunking]

I think it is best to use your computer based program to due all of your calculations since it will make far less mistakes than you will, plus different carriers want time broken down it many different ways, obviously the computer spits those out numbers in a fraction of time. Absolutely cuts down your time in filling out applications, However that being said, keep records on old fasion log books and take those with you to your interviews. I suggest a Jeppsen profesional logs because they should always be around when your into your 4th or 5th book. I wish I had entered all my time in a computer program, it would have saved me a lot of head aches. Good luck.

 

[modecontrol]

thankx for all the input

 

[ShawnC]

350Driver,

With Digital signature I see a time when you bring a compact flash card that is your logbook, instead of the pages and pages of logs. Besides that you can label it Porn and say to the FAA inspector that you don't have your logbook on you.

 

[midlifeflyer]

350DRIVER wrote:
One must also keep in mind that as a student pilot (pertaining to solo flight) you MUST have the logbook onboard the aircraft at all times WITH the "appropriate" endorsements, etc.

Only on cross country flights. Student pilots don't have to carry their logbooks on local solo flights, although carrying it all the time =is= common practice.

Picking a small nit.

 

[Hawker rider]

I don't see any reason why not to Bring a computer print out.
as long as you put them in a binder together and not just a bunch of loose sheets on a pile.

As far as it being a legal document goes, It only becomes a legal document once you ' hand it over" to some instance like the FAA. So in the mean time whatever you log in your logbook, it's off nobody's business, for all I care you can log time-spent-looking-for-job-at-airport in your logbook. If it would have been set in stone legal document, there would only be one form to it too, instead off a million different ones.

As far as the endorsements go, I started all my training while i was living in Europe, and over there there is no such thing as an indorsement in your logbook, so that was not a reason for me to keep it there, only until I trained for FAA licenses I had to deal with endorsements, I made sure that the instructor/examiner always used a page all the way in the back, so I only had to show it when needed.

And i do think it just looks a lot nicer and it is a lot easier to catch mistakes if done by computer. Why make it harder than it has to be?

 

[flx757]

Several years ago, I converted my paper logbooks to an electronic version. Since that time, I have used the computer printed pages (in a binder) at one interview (my current position) and submitted it to the CAA for examination when converting my FAA ATP to a CAA ATPL. In neither case did anyone seem to have any problem whatsoever with the electronic version.

 

[WillFly]

Since my wife accidently threw away my first logbook when we moved, I started using a computer logbook for all my flying time. Paper logbooks if lost, stolenor destroyed can not be replaced. With my computer I back up my logbook file on two discs and can easily rebuild it at any time. A logbook wether written or computer printed can be forged just as easily. I sign my name to every page attesting to it legitamecy. What else can you do? Interviewers will either believe your honest or your not. I dont think the form it is presented in really matters.

 

[PRO AV8R]

Think of it this way, you always want to be 110% prepared for an interview, what happens if you get there with the computer printouts and the interviewer says, "These are nice, but can I see your actual logbook?", now what do you think will happen if you say, "Sorry this is all I brought with me"? Maybe you could take both? Just a thought....

 

[midlifeflyer]

Two interesting(?) and related side thoughts:

1. § 61.51 says:

§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:

Anyone ever see anything official about what was "acceptable to the Administrator?"

2. I called FAA Legal some months ago to ask whether there were any guidelines on electronic logbooks - specifically in terms of FAA compliance with ESIGN (the federal electronic records act). I was told they're working on it.

 

[350DRIVER]

midlifeflyer wrote:

Only on cross country flights. Student pilots don't have to carry their logbooks on local solo flights, although carrying it all the time =is= common practice.

Where is the "initial" solo- endorsement located.? The student pilot not only has his student pilot certificate (medical certificate) endorsed by a CFI but if you recall a CFI MUST "also" make another endorsement or two in the student's logbook pertaining to "solo flight". I also realize as well as you do that there are different endorsements that are required for solo- cross country flights that are to be made by that student. One also cannot forget that oh so important " 9 0 D A Y " endorsement as well .....

keep in mind that you must also administer a pre-solo quiz and sign off on that as well once you have went over it with your student.

In a logbook...

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name)___________________ has satisfactorily completed the presolo training required by 61.87(c) and has demonstrated the proficiency of 61.87(d) and is proficient to make solo flights in (make and model aircraft)

I sure would hate to be a student pilot who get's ramped by some inspector and cannot prove that they are "legal" for solo flight since the logbook is not onboard and in return they cannot show a few of the required endorements.

c h e e r s

3 5 0

 

[midlifeflyer]

350DRIVER wrote:
I sure would hate to be a student pilot who get's ramped by some inspector and cannot prove that they are "legal" for solo flight since the logbook is not onboard and in return they cannot show a few of the required endorsements.

I agree that the better practice is to carry the logbook on all solo flights. But from a regulation standpoint, it's no different than you or I being ramp checked upon returning from a night flight with passengers in a high performance airplane. Would you be concerned about not being able to show your FR, night currency and high performance endorsements? Of course, I don't want my student to be worried about the gun-ho inspector with little knowledge of the regulations he's trying to enforce. Most certificated pilots have enough trouble with them without tossing student into their lairs.

The rule is probably different because cross countries are different from local flights. If an FAA inspector is concerned about a student's authority to be in the area on a local flight, all of the information is right there anyway. The flight school, the CFI, etc. On a cross country, there would be too much hassle. The rule is similar for recreational pilots.

 

[DrEvil]

I don't think it matters whether your logbook is maintained on a PC or a traditional paper logbook. If using a PC and your pages are printed AND signed, then what is the difference? You are signing that your log, in whatever form, is true and correct! As for the endorsement issue, yeah, in the back of your binder from your PC printouts should be a page of "real" endorsements to compliment the log, per regs.

 

[midlifeflyer]

DrEvil hit those keys and typed
I don't think it matters whether your logbook is maintained on a PC or a traditional paper logbook. If

You're right. It shouldn't. But different folks do business in different ways.

I try to rent when I'm on vacation. I don't particularly like dragging my logbook around so I usually just bring photocopies of the last couple of pages of my logbook to show passenger currency and my most recent FR.

Most places don't even look twice. But I've learned to call ahead to make sure.

One place, I even forgot the photocopies. In addition to (of course) a checkout, they only asked me to spend enough time with their CFI for him to sign me off for a new flight review, so that the operation new that I was legally current.

At another (a place I'm going to next week), they're insisting on the original logbook.

 

[DrEvil]

Heck, I didn't even think of that! As I'm a avid proponent of the e-Log, if you get your paper (book) log stolen, you're hosed. I can at least just hit the print button again, sign all pages, and be in there, nothing lost! And backups are easy, and even keeping a CD-RW off site!