Red Label Pay

[exagony]

If you are an FO pilot, give yourself and your family an immediate(Jan ?16) pay raise, get your 401K re-established, and reap the other benefits of coming on par with Flex pilots. If you want to prove Darwin was right, keep the bullies in power and prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract. If one year after voting NO and management hasn?t lived up to their word, vote the IBT (or someone better) in?they will be there. Our FPOC ?leaders? and their bosses use fear and obfuscation to make the pilot group think not voting the IBT in now will be the end of the world?..nothing could be further from the truth. DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF NOW. Vote No and watch us fly.
Cheers

If the IBT isn't voted in it will be 5-7 years before a new CBA will be voted in. You'll have to start from scratch and everyone knows how bad first contracts can be. Voting "no" gives KR 5-7 more years, not one year. Ask RH what happened when TA voted "no", didn't take KR 24 hours to switch the schedules and decimate their pay.

 

[BlueNose]

If you are an FO pilot, give yourself and your family an immediate(Jan ?16) pay raise, get your 401K re-established, and reap the other benefits of coming on par with Flex pilots. If you want to prove Darwin was right, keep the bullies in power and prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract. If one year after voting NO and management hasn?t lived up to their word, vote the IBT (or someone better) in?they will be there. Our FPOC ?leaders? and their bosses use fear and obfuscation to make the pilot group think not voting the IBT in now will be the end of the world?..nothing could be further from the truth. DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF NOW. Vote No and watch us fly.
Cheers

"Charlie Brown, I'll hold the football, and you come running up and kick it .."

http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/dyn/str_strip/244898.full.gif

"How long? All your life, Charlie Brown.. all your life.."

Go ahead, this time you can trust him.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

What bullies are in power right now warlord? KR SAID he has not reinstated the 401k because he hates the union! So he then was lying when he signed the loa agreeing to bring it back when the company turned profitable again. He says the ibt negotiated a horrible contract, but it was his lawyers that opened the books and said that was all of the money available. Does this mean then that he has two sets of books? Or is he lying again and the contract actually was a good as could be expected because of the horrible economy that we were in? KR has always had the power but with the union he just can't unilaterally fire people for NO REASON other than he does not like their posture in indoc! Wake up wl. He has always had the power! He did not need the ibt's permission to buy CA! He could have done what he wanted to. But he knew the Flex deal was on the table so if he had purchased CA and taken their pilots the union vote would not take place because combined the FO and CA pilot groups would make up more than 65 percent! Military trained! Stip! 401k! Sick days lost! Nothing will change! Deanna is CEO of operations! I will let the CEO make the choice of where the company hq will be! How did that work out for all the FJ personnel in Dallas? There is no hired company to help us fight the union! How many things does he have to lie about before you get your head out of the sand? I for one would rather not get a raise and keep the union so I have some protection against this dictator! As for the union contract I immediately received a 10000 dollar raise 5 1/2 years ago. That was far more than I was getting from the company payscale set up by KR! WAKE UP and vote YES! You are not taking the power away but you are helping to control it! The only bully and thug that I have seen during this whole process IS KR! I have just stated the actual facts what do you have for facts other than innuendos? It is hard to argue with fact. Even in the NT Christ spoke to Saul and said "it is hard to kick against the pricks!". He opened his eyes to the truth after that! Maybe you will too! Make this your Damascus road moment!

 

[Rupert.]

Give the man a chance by voting for no representation. If he doesn't produce in a year, vote in some sort of representation. I'm hearing that if the vote is for no representation , pay goes up the next day to highest in the industry. I also hear this vote brings back the 401K the next day. If you don't give him a chance you'll never have another chance to get rid of the 1108 Tar Baby. If vote if favor of representation, we are going to sit status quo for an eternity while the CBA is negotiated at a snails pace.

Vote for no represtation and let's give him a chance to restore things back to the way they were before ********************finger and Baboo came in and wrecked the place.

 

[Rupert.]

We have a Union because of management's track record.

We have a union because of Shltfingers managements track record. Vote NO and get rid of these speed bumps to growth.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Give the man a chance by voting for no representation. If he doesn't produce in a year, vote in some sort of representation. I'm hearing that if the vote is for no representation , pay goes up the next day to highest in the industry. I also hear this vote brings back the 401K the next day. If you don't give him a chance you'll never have another chance to get rid of the 1108 Tar Baby. If vote if favor of representation, we are going to sit status quo for an eternity while the CBA is negotiated at a snails pace.

Vote for no represtation and let's give him a chance to restore things back to the way they were before ********************finger and Baboo came in and wrecked the place.

I agree.

 

[warlord19]

Let’s review a few things, buckaroos..…OK?
Flexjet was acquired about 2 years ago by Flight Options.
We were immediately informed on this board and in meeting FO pilots on the road that:

we would be flying broke/illegal airplanes…that’s turned out to be total bulls*it
rest rules would be fudged, abused, etc….bulls*it
we would be asked/encouraged/pressured into flying marginal/illegal trips…bulls*t
we would be doing rolling rest….bullsh*t
etc etc etc

Most everything posted on this site by the IBT acolytes, Cap’n Crunch, and FPOC members has turned out to be bulls*t.

You throw bulls*it on the wall hoping it will stick, and when it doesn’t you move to the next manufactured lie. And you ask folks to believe what you say? MORE BULLSH*T.

If you FO/Flex pilots want to be stuck in the rut FO guys have been in for so long, then by all means vote yes in this upcoming election. If you would like to improve your and your family’s lives with an almost immediate large pay increase and restoration of a 401K plan, you need to vote NO. Open your eyes. About 70 of you FO folks have been welcomed into the fold. Ask your Cap’n if he’s cool with sending a portion of YOUR dues to the nest of crooks in Ohio….they’ll be under Federal oversight again soon. Grow a pair and tell your “brothers” you are going to do what’s right for you and your family. Use your head…the IBT is a dead-end road.
WL

 

[imacdog]

^ The words of desperation.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

I still have not heard anything to dispute the facts of KR's actual actions WL.

 

[993_Pilot]

Let?s review a few things, buckaroos..?OK?
Flexjet was acquired about 2 years ago by Flight Options.
We were immediately informed on this board and in meeting FO pilots on the road that:

we would be flying broke/illegal airplanes?that?s turned out to be total bulls*it
rest rules would be fudged, abused, etc?.bulls*it
we would be asked/encouraged/pressured into flying marginal/illegal trips?bulls*t
we would be doing rolling rest?.bullsh*t
etc etc etc

Most everything posted on this site by the IBT acolytes, Cap?n Crunch, and FPOC members has turned out to be bulls*t.

You throw bulls*it on the wall hoping it will stick, and when it doesn?t you move to the next manufactured lie. And you ask folks to believe what you say? MORE BULLSH*T.

If you FO/Flex pilots want to be stuck in the rut FO guys have been in for so long, then by all means vote yes in this upcoming election. If you would like to improve your and your family?s lives with an almost immediate large pay increase and restoration of a 401K plan, you need to vote NO. Open your eyes. About 70 of you FO folks have been welcomed into the fold. Ask your Cap?n if he?s cool with sending a portion of YOUR dues to the nest of crooks in Ohio?.they?ll be under Federal oversight again soon. Grow a pair and tell your ?brothers? you are going to do what?s right for you and your family. Use your head?the IBT is a dead-end road.
WL

More BS from WL.

Perhaps some of what you say is true, but that is mostly because there is still a threat of a union hanging over KR's head. If the union is voted out, you will see all those things come to fruition. As for 70 pilots being welcomed into the fold, you mean being asked to sit on their hands and read a checklist, instead of actually getting to fly an airplane? I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is... I say that the teamsters will not be under federal oversight, anytime soon. How much are you willing to wager? I'll make another wager with you too. I bet that Onesky/DAC/Flexjet never sees a a supersonic Aeron AS2. Kenn Ricci loves to get the press and be in the spotlight, especially at NBAA, but even if that design makes it to production, we won't see any of them. Heck, I'd love to lose that bet, but sadly, I know I won't. Should we give him a year based on his views of seniority?... because that's a joke at Flex. You have to "interview" to get ahead in the Red-Label program. Or should we give Kenn a year based on the rumor of promises of raises, 401k restoration, etc. that he has made? Because one only need to look at his history during the RTA merger to have an expectation of how he will behave after a NO vote in the Flex/Flops merger. Shall I run down the list for you of everything the RTA pilots lost?... I know you have already seen what the Travel Air pilots lost, so I won't bore you with the long list. The FO pilots have been stuck in a rut simply due to KR's behavior. He has had the benefit of low salaries with his workforce way too long, and we are still in a rut? ... that is probably the only thing that has kept us in business. Without a union, it would simply be his way (operating in the gray areas) or the highway. Truth.

 

[exagony]

www.oneskywatch.com make sure to watch the union busting videos - RH and KR are doing EXACTLY what the reformed union buster says companies do during union drives... VOTE YES 1108!!! Union Buster states ONLY way a company can stop a union is by KNOWINGLY breaking the law 4:45 into the video

 

[warlord19]

"Let’s review a few things, buckaroos..…OK?
Flexjet was acquired about 2 years ago by Flight Options.
We were immediately informed on this board and in meeting FO pilots on the road that:

we would be flying broke/illegal airplanes…that’s turned out to be total bulls*it
rest rules would be fudged, abused, etc….bulls*it
we would be asked/encouraged/pressured into flying marginal/illegal trips…bulls*t
we would be doing rolling rest….bullsh*t
etc etc etc

Most everything posted on this site by the IBT acolytes, Cap’n Crunch, and FPOC members has turned out to be bulls*t.”
WL

993 says “perhaps some of what you say is true”???? REALLY!!! ALL of it is true,993, and you know it. That makes you a liar and it makes all your little lemming’s who posted these lies liars.

I am very familiar with the mistakes management has made during this campaign, and have come to the conclusion they don’t even come close to the the level of bad faith, hostility, character assasination, lying, demonization of individuals, etc that you and your lovely companions display every day.

I am therefore more than willing to give management a chance to display their good faith and character for a year. They are not my enemies. I have zero faith in what you, Cap’n Crunch, and the other little lemmings say anymore….you are known liars and act like thugs and bully-boys and certainly live up to the IBT’s tarnished reputation.

So keep on doing what you’ve been doing, 993, keep your little lemmings in line, and keep flinging the sh*t. Perhaps more than a few of the neutral folks will begin to understand how screwed they will be if the IBT comes on property….I don’t know. All the pilot’s salaries and bennies will be frozen till a contract is hammered out, which will take quite a while and won’t be easy. Nobody gets big raises or re-instated 401K plans or anything Jan 1st. The FO pilots remain in their rut and the atmosphere at work will be cruel. I hope you're happy, Dude.
WL

 

[Club ORD FO]

More BS from WL.

As for 70 pilots being welcomed into the fold, you mean being asked to sit on their hands and read a checklist, instead of actually getting to fly an airplane?

I would be beyond surprised if that statement is true.

 

[dime line]

OK buckaroo,

I am very familiar with the mistakes management has made during this campaign, and have come to the conclusion they don?t even come close to the the level of bad faith, hostility, character assasination, lying, demonization of individuals, etc that you and your lovely companions display every day.

You are either dumber than a box of rocks, or your just management

The FO pilots remain in their rut and the atmosphere at work will be cruel.

Wow, apparently you forgot what a non union pilot force did when the company tried to be "cruel" prior to our contract. I can only hope the company doesn't go down this thuggery path (and you rag the teamsters for thuggery)

 

[993_Pilot]

"Let?s review a few things, buckaroos..?OK?
Flexjet was acquired about 2 years ago by Flight Options.
We were immediately informed on this board and in meeting FO pilots on the road that:

we would be flying broke/illegal airplanes?that?s turned out to be total bulls*it
rest rules would be fudged, abused, etc?.bulls*it
we would be asked/encouraged/pressured into flying marginal/illegal trips?bulls*t
we would be doing rolling rest?.bullsh*t
etc etc etc

Most everything posted on this site by the IBT acolytes, Cap?n Crunch, and FPOC members has turned out to be bulls*t.?
WL

993 says ?perhaps some of what you say is true????? REALLY!!! ALL of it is true,993, and you know it. That makes you a liar and it makes all your little lemming?s who posted these lies liars...

Why on earth do you think the bonus program is structured the way it is on the Red Label aircraft. If you can't figure it out, it is to get the pilots to push the grey areas of the regs and push themselves when they are sick and/or tired, so he doesn't have to. That Red-Label bonus program is a carrot that will be nearly impossible to make without pushing the limits. We were not lying, and you know it, we were giving you his history, and expecting a repeat. We may have been wrong about his method with the Flex pilots so far, but all bets are off if there is no longer a union on property. When I said "perhaps some of what you say is true", I simply said that because KR is being a little smarter this time around.

....I am very familiar with the mistakes management has made during this campaign...

You mean like KR saying that he worked for Northwest when he didn't?

You mean like claiming he was military trained, when he was only in ROTC?

You mean like taking away all that he has from the Flexjet pilots. including the STIP, and then lying that he didn't know about it?

You mean saying that he will give the 401k match back when the economy gets better, then changing that to when all the furloughs are recalled, then finally admitting on video that he won't give back the 401k match at Options, simply because he hates the union?

Yeah, being a proven liar on multiple occasions is a huge mistake. I could go on, because there were LOTS more lies and mistakes, but then you already know that.

...I am therefore more than willing to give management a chance to display their good faith and character for a year....

"Give me a year", really means at least 5 years, and I know you understand that. KR and his management team have already had 5+ years with the Options pilots and around 2 years with the Flexjet pilots to "display their good faith and character". His track record speaks for itself, so why should we give them one more day? The only thing he has proven is that he can't be trusted to do what's right where all the employees are concerned. That is why we want a CBA.

...They are not my enemies....

Regardless of what you may think, it isn't a personal thing for me, and management is not my enemy either. However, the reality is that in any company, management's goals are often in direct conflict with what is best for the employees. A union gives the pilots a voice. Going forward, KR can choose to work amicably with the pilots union, or he can choose to fight them, the choice is really up to him.

 

[Brit]

This group hasn't had the sack for years
to organize. Don't start expecting a miracle.

 

[shanes123]

Give the Company a year???????????? I got a better idea!! Give the Union a year. If you dont like the contract and work rules its easier to vote them out then it will be to vote them back in.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

From KR book Management by Trust


"We developed a two-tier pay and benefits program. The basic concept was to pay those in the committed tier-we called them Senior Flight Officers-above average and the rest of our pilots below average. For example, if the industry average for a certain type of aircraft was $75,000, we made sure nobody made $75,000. Senior Flight Officers might earn $90,000, while the remaining pilots earned $60,000. In the end, our salary costs were not much different from companies that paid everybody $75,000. But look at the incentives we created for people to achieve Senior Flight Officer status—in other words, to become committed."

Well he is well on his way to implementing this again! How is everyone going to be paid industry standard? He blatantly states that is against his philosophy! By all means give him another year to reek more havoc! Let's trust him because he had proven himself with the flexjet contracts that he came up with! Wait did I write that out loud?

 

[BlueNose]

From KR book Management by Trust


"We developed a two-tier pay and benefits program. The basic concept was to pay those in the committed tier-we called them Senior Flight Officers-above average and the rest of our pilots below average. For example, if the industry average for a certain type of aircraft was $75,000, we made sure nobody made $75,000. Senior Flight Officers might earn $90,000, while the remaining pilots earned $60,000. In the end, our salary costs were not much different from companies that paid everybody $75,000. But look at the incentives we created for people to achieve Senior Flight Officer status?in other words, to become committed."

Well he is well on his way to implementing this again! How is everyone going to be paid industry standard? He blatantly states that is against his philosophy! By all means give him another year to reek more havoc! Let's trust him because he had proven himself with the flexjet contracts that he came up with! Wait did I write that out loud?

THIS. These are KR's own words. He has now set the top tier pay at Flex with the Red Label program. By what he wrote, he sees this pay tier as above average. These will be the 20% 'loyal, committed' employees in the pilot group that he overpays. Want to see what he thinks the rest of you should be paid? Again, just read what he wrote - the top guys should make about 1.5X what the other 80%, the unwashed rabble, get. In case you didn't get it yet, that's most of you. That's what you have to look forward to once he's free to do as he wishes. Think it won't happen? Go ahead, give him a chance,

THIS time will be different. We'll all get rich this time, not just KR and his cronies. Ignore the facts of what happened with every other business he has operated and just give him a chance!