Recurrent management meetings...

[fischman]

My response to any query...

"___________ "

That is complete silence. A blank stare, with a slight sense of annoyance as to being bothered. Oh, and I'll eat somewhere else. Thanks anyway. The sooner our pilots realize that anything they say to management will be returned as a lie, the quicker I'll be able to go eat.

Is it childish? Maybe, but no more childish than walking out of a meeting after showing up 8 minutes late, and leaving 5 minutes later. So what will silence accomplish? It will force the managers of this company to stop dealing with individual pilots and start dealing with the eboard who speaks with our collective voice.

 

[DC-4]

I hope you guys do do that. Because the faster the EMT comes to the conclusion that the pilot group has had it with them and will no longer deal the better it will be for everyone and the faster cry baby Hansel will return home to daddy. I think a vote of no confidence is in order right quick from all you guys. Also, as far as I can read what happened today the EMT is in violation of RLA section 2.

 

[BentOver]

I hope you guys do do that. Because the faster the EMT comes to the conclusion that the pilot group has had it with them and will no longer deal the better it will be for everyone and the faster cry baby Hansel will return home to daddy. I think a vote of no confidence is in order right quick from all you guys. Also, as far as I can read what happened today the EMT is in violation of RLA section 2.

I hope so too... Does anyone know if there really is such a thing as a vote of no confidence for this EMT? Is there anyhting that can be done?

It is a clear violation of the RLA... Not them walking out, but them not allowing NJASAP lawyers in the room.. IMO, they never had an intention of sharing anything anyways. They had it planned that they were going to walk out.

They have no intention of working with the pilots. No intention of doing anything productive. All they are doing is losing, and are trying to create scenarios so that they may blame it on the Union whenever WB comes down on them. Hansell will go home to Iowa, Eyer and Noe will go work at some other aviation firm. Hopefully somehow Santulli can get it all back with backing from someone. He is creating a pretty good business with Milestone. Hopefully he can work enough deals to buy NJA back.

I'd personally pay for an airline ticket to CMH if Santulli ever got it back and had a get together in the hangar. And I'm not even employed at NJA.

Some said he had to go for business reasons. I never believed that. He may have wasted some $$ but he knew what worked with the pilots/employees. A true leader. No one will ever change my opinion of Santulli.

 

[DC-4]

I agree I would pay for the ticket too, to go back to the hangar and see him and hopefully olsen too. We all knew he never left for family reasons DS came in and did an audit and cooked the books to make RTS look bad infront of WB. It worked I don't care how good you are you do not make what was it a 750 billion dollar turn around in 11 months. We all know how trust worthy he worked out to be, he gave a new meaning to BH ethics. Also lets not forget who hand picked JH, and lets not forget that while working for his daddies firm what they did yes Anti union. Also lets not forget that this man has not even ran a 7-11 before taking the rains at NJA.

 

[OPECJet]

I agree I would pay for the ticket too, to go back to the hangar and see him and hopefully olsen too. We all knew he never left for family reasons DS came in and did an audit and cooked the books to make RTS look bad infront of WB. It worked I don't care how good you are you do not make what was it a 750 billion dollar turn around in 11 months. We all know how trust worthy he worked out to be, he gave a new meaning to BH ethics. Also lets not forget who hand picked JH, and lets not forget that while working for his daddies firm what they did yes Anti union. Also lets not forget that this man has not even ran a 7-11 before taking the rains at NJA.

These two statements lead me to believe Buffett has either washed his hands of NJA in it's current form or is unbelievably stupid with absolutely no sense of business operation. ANY business.

If Buffett wanted Netjets to thrive, Sokol would have been the temporary hatchet man with real leadership coming in behind to re-build a leaner NetJets. After Sokol turned out to be a criminal, Jordie would have been shown the door the next day. If the plan was to rebuild there would be mid-cabin orders on the books, new share sales, doing WHATEVER it took to retain current owners, and lowering share cost to a little above what our competitors charge.

Instead, what will probably happen (sans "leadership" change), is that next month the company will want to negotiate a new contract. They will spend one year making routine short and worthless trips to the table. After one year the company will call for a mediator (might not take that long). Mediated talks will go for an undetermined amount of time until an impasse is reached. Thirty days later the COMPANY initiates self help. G4 scabs, along with some others while the rest of the flying is sold off until the owner base drops off to a level that can be sustained with about 5 core aircraft and maybe 20 owned frames. Most of those owners will be BH companies.

The QS tails that aren't owned or core will go to EJM and flown in what will be the world's largest charter company. Further Berkshire gains will be made by new pilots being recruited to fly the old QS tails sent to Flight Safety (wanna bet who will be footing the bill?).

Then again I could be all wrong and Buffett will send Little Jordie back to his daddy's law fir before he has a chance to blow up the place.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

It is a clear violation of the RLA... Not them walking out, but them not allowing NJASAP lawyers in the room.. IMO, they never had an intention of sharing anything anyways. They had it planned that they were going to walk out.

Word is they had the email composed before they even showed up

 

[gunfyter]

Do I really need to read about this here? I already got my emails from company and union. We also have a union board.

 

[BentOver]

These two statements lead me to believe Buffett has either washed his hands of NJA in it's current form or is unbelievably stupid with absolutely no sense of business operation. ANY business.

If Buffett wanted Netjets to thrive, Sokol would have been the temporary hatchet man with real leadership coming in behind to re-build a leaner NetJets. After Sokol turned out to be a criminal, Jordie would have been shown the door the next day. If the plan was to rebuild there would be mid-cabin orders on the books, new share sales, doing WHATEVER it took to retain current owners, and lowering share cost to a little above what our competitors charge.

Instead, what will probably happen (sans "leadership" change), is that next month the company will want to negotiate a new contract. They will spend one year making routine short and worthless trips to the table. After one year the company will call for a mediator (might not take that long). Mediated talks will go for an undetermined amount of time until an impasse is reached. Thirty days later the COMPANY initiates self help. G4 scabs, along with some others while the rest of the flying is sold off until the owner base drops off to a level that can be sustained with about 5 core aircraft and maybe 20 owned frames. Most of those owners will be BH companies.

The QS tails that aren't owned or core will go to EJM and flown in what will be the world's largest charter company. Further Berkshire gains will be made by new pilots being recruited to fly the old QS tails sent to Flight Safety (wanna bet who will be footing the bill?).

Then again I could be all wrong and Buffett will send Little Jordie back to his daddy's law fir before he has a chance to blow up the place.

I mostly agree..... The only part that stumps me is Buffett basically calling his $750 million investment a loss. And not getting anything out of NJA via a sale.... Not that $750 million is all very much money to WB, but it's still admitting he made yet another mistake with an aviation investment. Maybe he doesn't care...

But I definitely agree with Sokol, Jordie not being here to grow NJA. Never thought it was just a coincidence that Sokol brought on a union busting attorney and elevated him to a senior position. And then Jordie took over the whole thing. Jordie is here for one reason only. And it's not his management skills. (but he has proven to be even less of a union buster, his tactics are very weak and immature)

 

[NJAowner]

He may have wasted some $$ but he knew what worked with the pilots/employees.

He knew what workled for owners as well.

Do I really need to read about this here? I already got my emails from company and union. We also have a union board.

GF -- YOU have a union board, I don't. How else am I going to get this info.!

Management Agenda Items:
1. retain owners -- it is easier to retain an owner than try to sell to a new one.

2. retain owners -- see #1 above.

3. retain owners -- see #s 1 and 2 above.

Without owners, the pilots could have the world's best contract, but not be needed since there are not many people to fly. Purchasing can get the most incredible price on moist towelettes, but who will use them (however a good deal on toilet tissue may be helpful to help clean up all the crap which is said). You can have orders for the greatest new planes -- but who will buy them. In frac land owners buy the service rendered to them, not the airframe.

 

[OPECJet]

Do I really need to read about this here? I already got my emails from company and union. We also have a union board.

Until the EBoard let ALL pilots on the seniority list, you will read about it here. Refrain from commenting if you wish, but 495 of us were removed from most areas of the message board and have no other avenue of communicating with large numbers of the active pilots.

We didn't choose to put it on this page. The EBoard did. Take it up with them.

 

[gunfyter]

We could organize an Owners Union.

 

[NJAowner]

We have 2 unions -- (1) "The Invisible Hand Union", and (2) "The Visible Dollar Union".

 

[gunfyter]

Macbeth's invisible hand? Or smith's?

We also have The Unseen Hand;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9647831/E...on-to-the-Conspiratorial-View-of-History-1994

 

[fischman]

Do I really need to read about this here? I already got my emails from company and union. We also have a union board.

There are a few pilots who come to this board who will not go to the union site.

More to come...

 

[gunfyter]

I am getting the word out by any means necessary. There are a few pilots who come to this board who will not go to the union site.

More to come...

Yeah. Unfortunately those few probably won't cooperate.

 

[fischman]

Maybe, maybe not.

I have faith in the ability of our pilots to be smarter than the average bear.

 

[OPECJet]

Maybe, maybe not.

I have faith in the ability of our pilots to be smarter than the average bear.

I think most are. Some have yet to see the light, however.

 

[fischman]

I think most are. Some have yet to see the light, however.

There will always be few who never see the light, but I have faith in the pilot's ability to see when they are being played. The events of earlier this week should start many to asking questions. That is a beginning.

 

[BentOver]

Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on what time of day it is!!) management hasn't realized yet that their tactics are doing nothing more than strengthening the Union. Maybe not all at once, but a few pilots at a time..

1) That ridiculuous savethegoldengoose blog.. If it wasn't such an immature rant it may have had atleast some credibilty. But the way it is put together and the blatant msg is so ridiculuous it does nothing but make the EMT look stupid.

2) The EMT's silly take on each and every meeting, correspondance or any other occurance... Do they really expect the pilot group to believe what they say? Do they really expect us to believe Luthi and company are just telling lies to their own Union? Do they really expect us to believe that it is Luthi sabotaging meetings? We, the pilots (or ex-pilots), are much smarter than the average employee at other union shops. We didn't go straight from high school to a guild union bending/banging metal for a living. (not that there's anything wrong with that. But most of us are educated enough to where we had options in life.)

 

[fischman]

Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on what time of day it is!!) management hasn't realized yet that their tactics are doing nothing more than strengthening the Union. Maybe not all at once, but a few pilots at a time..

1) That ridiculuous savethegoldengoose blog.. If it wasn't such an immature rant it may have had atleast some credibilty. But the way it is put together and the blatant msg is so ridiculuous it does nothing but make the EMT look stupid.

2) The EMT's silly take on each and every meeting, correspondance or any other occurance... Do they really expect the pilot group to believe what they say? Do they really expect us to believe Luthi and company are just telling lies to their own Union? Do they really expect us to believe that it is Luthi sabotaging meetings? We, the pilots (or ex-pilots), are much smarter than the average employee at other union shops. We didn't go straight from high school to a guild union bending/banging metal for a living. (not that there's anything wrong with that. But most of us are educated enough to where we had options in life.)

Don't be so quick to put us on such a high pedestal. There isn't a group in history that went into a negotiation wanting to give in to management. They all get LEVERAGED into that position. The trick is to stay one step ahead of those who want to destroy our association, remove food from our tables, take the roofs from our children's heads, and destroy our families.

We must remain vigilant, ask questions, volunteer our time, talents, and professionalism, and most importantly, stay one step ahead of those who wish to do harm to our livelihoods.

MAINTAIN OUR LEVERAGE through unity, strict professionalism, and ADHERENCE TO THE FAR, CBA, AND FOM.

Wear your uniform with pride. Press your shirts, shine your shoes, wear your tie WHENEVER IN PUBLIC VIEW. Wear your oxygen mask when required. If your airplane requires maintenance be sure it is documented. If the company violates the CBA, file a grievance. You will NOT get into trouble even if you lose the grievance. ASK QUESTIONS! "Why is the company making this move? What is the consequence of this action? Why is the eboard doing this?" Learn to ask the RIGHT questions, and learn when to NOT ask questions (LISTEN)! Through that, will you find the truth.

Above all remember, safety, service, schedule. ALWAYS be sure that the Owners are WELL TAKEN CARE OF. They are the REASON WE ARE WORKING, and should be treated with the utmost respect and gratitude. We do NOT need to help management drive our customers away!!!