Records Question

It'll Fly

You think?
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
31
Total Time
20+yrs
This may be dumb so take it easy on me!

Am going over the records of an acft before its 100 hr insp. In reveiwing them I find there is no log for the propellor nor any history of its installation in either the acft or engine logs.

The owner has had the plane for just going on three years and this will be the third Annual. It was previously owned by a operations govt type who did his own maintenance. On the first annual it was discovered that the nose gear had collapsed and a engine mount damage with repairs made but the minimum of documentation. All appears to have been done satisfactory with the exception any notation on the prop. I think this was when the prop was replaced. Noted during the first annual was the absence of documentation but that the prop was inspected and found to be airworthy.

MY QUESTION? Is this proper? My feelings are that the prop is in good condition and airworthy, but I have no history tying this prop to this airframe. For both the owners and my peace of mind I think that the Prop should be sent in to the shop, Inspected and then returned to service establishing its installation on that aircraft and engine.


Whaduya think?
 

erj-145mech

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Posts
1,071
Total Time
1350
Older Cessna's and Pipers didn't come from the factory with a seperate prop logbook, you didn't say the make or model of subject airplane. If it is a Cessna, the serial number is near the front of the engine or airframe book, is the serial the same? If the prop meets the airworthiness of the appropriate service instructions/manual, the installation meets the same criteria, I wouldn't remove it. As a mechanic, you're not responsible for something inside the hub, if the prop meets all other criteria for airworthiness.
 

GravityHater

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
1,168
Total Time
3000
We see this a lot still. Many times the prop is not listed in the TCDS as an acceptable model. In those cases usually there is no recourse except to get the right one on there. Some you have to pull the prop to see the MN, SN.
Around here the FSDO accepts an IA just buying, and starting a prop log book at any old time and writing in what they know about it (assuming it is the right one and compliant with all ADs) This is pt 91 right?
 

It'll Fly

You think?
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
31
Total Time
20+yrs
Yeah, sorry I didn't give you enough info. It is Part 91. The acft is a Beech Sport with a 150 Lycoming in it. The prop is the correct one for the acft. There is a Prop Log book in the records but not for this particular SN installed. There are no entrys in this Log book so it is irrelevant.

I just wanted some feed back before doing the annual. Like I said it is in good condition and there is no outward reason to remove it. I will check with the FSDO here and see if they will buy off my starting a new Log for it....
 

GravityHater

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
1,168
Total Time
3000
The problem will always be; how many hours are on it. You won't be able to enter anything in the prop log except todays date and the aftt.
In the future, someone will know at least "Well we can say it is at least 8 years old or 1264hrs since that time (but it could be 20 yrs)". At the minimum someone can start keeping track of overhauls since the logbook was started.
 

erj-145mech

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Posts
1,071
Total Time
1350
Fortunately for the owner, its a fixed pitch and there is no set overhaul period in a 14CFR91 operations. A visual inspection of the prop and its installation, dress and paint the blades if necessary, logbook entry, TT unknown, work performed, sign date, good to go.
 

bocefus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
395
Total Time
6969
Not quite so. Total Time is required to be tracked for the propeller. In the case of lost records, it can be estimated. "TT Unknown" is unacceptable.
 

erj-145mech

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Posts
1,071
Total Time
1350
Review 14CFR43.9, .11. Unless that fixed pitch (ie, no moving parts) propeller is time limited, then total time on the component is unnecessary. Airframe TT is required in a maintenance entry.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt.
 

bocefus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
395
Total Time
6969
Apparently you haven't been there, you are confused.
Total time Is NOT required for a maintenance entry, you should review your referenced FAR, 43.9. While you are doing that, have a look at 91.417 (i). You will find that the owner/operator is REQUIRED to have the total time of the propeller recorded.
 

erj-145mech

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Posts
1,071
Total Time
1350
Bocefus, you're right, I forgot about that part 91 paragraph. Disregard what I said. Go back to that nose gear incident, and do a BWAG on the time of the prop to then.

Thanks for the correction.
 

GravityHater

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
1,168
Total Time
3000
The other issue is what the next owner will think of the prop and logs.
Often we forget the most expensive issue is resale value. Shouldn't be a problem with a fixed pitch. "Well no, we don't know its full history, but it was at the prop shop in 2004 and should be good for another 20 years"
 
Top