Recommendations? ATP-SEL & SES

[Tinstaafl]

G'day all,

I've recently married & moved to Florida from overseas.

I now have to resurrect my sitting-in-the-bottom-of-drawer ATP-MEL. My flying is current up to last month from the flying job I had in the UK.

My thoughts are that I can achieve multiple goals for not too much a cost by doing an ATP-SE land & sea. Namely:

* Refresh my memory about US procedures & practices. One of the most necessary things for me, I think.

* A BFR to revalidate my US licence.

* long term get US CFI, CFII, MEI, so..

* get a CSEL or ATP-SEL. I'm less familiar with the FAA specific commercial check ride manouvres than instrument work so tend towards an ATP-SEL. An ATP gives commercial privileges anyway AND instrument.

* some hirers specify at least a Comm SEL so that would improve my prospects.

* it would be nice to get seaplane privileges just for the fun of it.

* erm....cost.


Considerations:

* I'm definitely rusty about US procedures & rules. Even though I've started revising from a newly purchased FAR-AIM, it's easier if you're doing the stuff rather than reading about it. I expect to budget some extra time & $$$ for this.

* A licence check ride eg SE land or sea, will cover the BFR requirement.

* I enjoy instructing but don't want to only instruct hence getting the various instructor certificates isn't a huge priority.

* The SE stuff:

I could do a Comm-SEL just about anywhere. I reckon the cost is ~$1000 - $1500 inc the check ride. Similar cost if I did ATP-SEL. To get SE sea then I'd have to add similar amount again.

I tend to think that doing a combined SE land & sea in an amphib. is cheaper option but you might have a better alternative or reasons for not doing it this way. I've been quoted $1950 inc check ride.

Your opinions & comments are welcome.

T.

 

[vclean]

You have to be knowledgeable and proficient on the commercial manuevers if you intend to pursue a CFI. There isn't much use for a SE-ATP.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Good point. Are they not covered as part of the instructor course?

 

[bobbysamd]

Single-engine ratings

Good point. Are they not covered as part of the instructor course?

You first must earn a Commercial SEL before you can earn a single-engine CFI. Of course, the commercial maneuvers are part of the course.

What you could do is do both. Get your Commercial. Your new pilot certificate will be an ATP certificate with a multiengine rating and with Commercial privileges for single-engine. Then, hop into the right seat and get your CFI. You will finish with a CFI certificate with single-engine ratings. You have to take the writtens for your CFI. All during this time, your instructor can help you with U.S. regs and airspace requirements. Adding Commercial privileges to your U.S. pilot certificate will cover the flight review requirement, as set forth at 14 CFR 61.56(d).

You can do all this nearly anywhere in Florida. Any of the major flight schools there will be happy to work with you at least on a Part 61 basis.

Finally, you could just add SE privileges to your ATP. It is an easy rating to add. Your flight review will be updated. But, if you want to pursue a CFI, you will need single-engine privileges on your pilot certificate and be able to demonstrate the commercial maneuvers to proficiency.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your plans.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Ta, Bobby. Appreciate your comments.

 

[bobbysamd]

Ta, Bobby. Appreciate your comments.

Sure. Good luck.

 

[CUEBOAT]

Correct me if i misread you post Bobby, but it seems you suggest to Tinstaafl, he should do a commercial checkride then do a CFI ride then do an ATP ride(all in a single) Why not just do the ATP single as the first checkride? This would save him some money.

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can take your commercial-single checkride from the right seat. If you're working towards your CFI, you might as well get the sight picture down. If you do your single from the right seat, transitioning to teaching and sitting the same seat with the same manuevers will be pretty easy.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Thanks for your comments, guys.

Right seat isn't a worry. I instructed PPL, CPL, night, aeros, multi, IFR & some multicrew/ME for 10 yrs in Oz. Approx half my TT is instructing. I would have thought the flying part of the instructor course would be sufficient to learn the FAA peculiar CPL flight manouvres?

That's whyI figure going straight to ATP-SEL would be the simplest (& cheapest!) way to do things. Since I'd also like a seaplane rating I reckon combining the ATP-SEL & SES in one test is also very cost effective.

My thoughts were that the hours doing the SES aren't wasted because they give me valuable time to refamiliarise myself with US procedures.

Am I biting off more than I can chew? Perhaps there's something I've missed?

 

[bobbysamd]

Commercial SE add-on v. ATP SE add-on

Correct me if i misread you post Bobby, but it seems you suggest to Tinstaafl, he should do a commercial checkride then do a CFI ride then do an ATP ride(all in a single) Why not just do the ATP single as the first checkride? This would save him some money.

It would be an either/or. I suggested that he take a Commercial single and then hop in the right seat for his CFI. That way he will be up on the Commercial airwork and would just have to learn it from the right seat. He might be able to do it all from the right seat.

Or, he could just take an ATP SE ride. He will have updated his flight review. Either way, he will have added single-engine privileges to his U.S. ATP certificate. But he still would have to learn all the Commercial airwork from the right seat for his CFI.

If he doesn't want a CFI, he could take a seaplane rating only, which would update his flight review.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

I think we are sorta confused on what you want to do.

Do you want to get current to fly US aircraft and then get a flying job or do you want another rating? Do you want to instruct or try to jump into a part 121/135 job? Or do you just want to get US current and get a job with your multi ATP (will you have the hours to realistically get hired if you do this?)?

Any way you cut it you will be able to pick up US procedures and whatnot.

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A SES isn't overly useful in your case. If you want it, probibly best to add it on later. Also, usually a commercial SES is only about 5 hours of work with a CFI if you are current.

A commercial SEL and a CFI would allow you to instruct (lets you build up some time and you will learn US procedures like the back of your hand in short order). Also a CFI is a good fallback job or free money on the side. Plus these jobs are decently easy to find if you look hard enough (especially if you have 2k dual given).

I have heard that an ATP is like an advanced instrument checkride and thus wouldn't be as nice to get up to speed on certain US procedures (so I doubt it would be easy to use the ATP training torwards a CFI ticket). But if you are flying 121/135, you will be doing alot of instrument procedure work and an ATP is probibly your better bet.

 

[bobbysamd]

Single-engine ATP

If you already have your ATP and are instrument current, the SE ATP add-on is one of the easiest practicals. You can do it in a simple single. It is basically a souped-up comp check (IPC). Of course, just like any practical, you have to be prepared.

I second Jedi_Cheese's points about the value of getting a Commercial Single and CFI. I got my SE ATP only because I wanted to. Nothing additional accrues to you if you get it. I gather that Tinstaafl wants to get a seaplane rating for the same reason; because he wants to. But if he is looking at getting his single-engine CFI, getting his single-engine Commercial add-on first would be great preparation for the grueling CFI practical to follow.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Thank you, everyone.

As wondered about earlier, I am aiming for airlines in the long run. My current situation - new to the country, need to re-famil. myself with US procedures etc - means that I'm not happy that I'm ready for work here. At least, not yet hence my desire for something more than 'just' a BFR.

I would also like to instruct part time/casually. Teach my wife, an occasional student, that sort of thing so a rush for an instructor rating isn't important. Perhaps for the certificate's potential to gain some work reasonably quickly AND in my local area but otherwise it's not essential. I have nearly 2400 hrs instructing at reasonably broad range of levels, including Chief Instructor of an instructor school so I think it's reasonable to believe that the basics of teaching wouldn't be a problem during an instructor course. More likely the worry will be making sure I'm thoroughly conversant with the US system etc.

Single engine land is also desirable for personal flying, not just instructing. If I can combine my refresher training with gaining something new then.........why not! I've always wanted a seaplane rating so it would be very convenient if I can combine it with my refresher.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Addendum

It's been a while since I started this thread. I've held off flying until I was approved to work. That happened a couple of weeks ago so I got busy on the sorting out the flying stuff. After shopping around & talking to a number of flying schools and a check airman I decided to go with doing a combined ATP-SEL&S in an amphibian. It took 3 days x $3000 all inclusive. That also included additional flight & instructor ground time I requested to meet my primary purpose of refamiliarising myself with the US procedures to revalidate my long-out-of-BFR ATP-MEL.

My reasoning was thus:

I want to be able to fly s/e aircraft in the US. I will probably also get CFI & CFII certificates at some future, but not urgent, point, hence getting either a PPL issued on the back of my foreign licence (suggested by the check airman) or doing a straight PPL test (suggested by a flying school) isn't suitable

If I'd done a Commercial-SEL then I'd have needed time to learn & practice the FAA specific commercial flight manoeuvres + the test at the end. That would have taken at least several hours at dual rates in an aircraft suitable for the CPL check ride. I still would have wanted the extra ground time with an instructor (possibly even more so since commercial is a whole new class of licence test). If I chosen an ATP-SEL then I'd still have needed some famil flight & ground time before the flight test.

In the long run I would have done a float rating anyway, say, 5 hrs flying at commercial or ATP level.

After reading the commercial & ATP PTSs I was fairly sure that I was more up to speed with ATP stuff than CPL stuff so elected to go the ATP route.

We were able to be quite efficient with air time. The amphib. is land based so starting & finishing on land automatically will give SEL even while training & qualifying for SES. Shuttling out & back to the lakes meant that we could do approaches & revise the ATP upper air work with very little additional air time to the basic SES course ie only the extra 2hrs that I'd requested.



So, all over with and I've now added ATP-SEL & SES to my qualifications and had a really fun time doing it.

Thank you everyone for the information you gave me. You helped me find the best combination of price & result with, I think, the most efficient long term cost & effort. Your comments gave me additional information that helped when I asked questions to flying schools.