Recent article regarding pilot salaries

[airbaker]

Does anyone know of a recent article in either the LA times, NY times, Wall Street Journal or USA Today, that covered pilot salaries. I'm asking because my father-in-law recently came across an article in one of the papers a few days ago (he couldn't remember which one). He said it had a break down of the hourly pay rates of all the major carriers. I just was curious and wanted to read it for myself.

We don't discuss money around the dinner table, but he was shocked at how little the profession paid...bet he wishes his daughter married a doctor!

thanks

 

[Jeeves]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com

Click on AIRLINES on top then select the individual carrier for current pay scales/hourly/guaranteed mins/pensions/etc

 

[airbaker]

Appreciate your response. I actually already know about airline central and their payscales. I was just hoping to read the actual article....I guess I wanted to see how inaccurate the media has portrayed us.

 

[Green]

If your father in law was surprised at how little we make then the media probably did an accurate job of portraying our salaries...

 

[canyonblue737]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/business/15millionaires.html?ex=1148270400&en=25f827c6c23a7 f10&ei=5099&partner=TOPIXNEWS

 

[SWA/FO]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/05/14/business/0515-nat-MILLIONAIRESweb.gif

Just a click and paste special, Baby!!!

 

[airbaker]

If your father in law was surprised at how little we make then the media probably did an accurate job of portraying our salaries...

Good point!

I think the diagram SWA/FO linked was part of the article my father-in-law was referencing. He had mentioned something about it showing SWA making $186/hr and I told him I thought they made close to $200.

Thanks for finding that.

 

[F9 A319]

I would like to point out (as we have to management) that these figures are ONLY flight pay per hour.

Benefits, or the lack thereof, are not part of the numbers in the article.

 

[Green]

Accustomed only to success, it is as if they do not want to miss out on the rest of the story. They helped Southwest send big-name airlines like Pan Am and Eastern to the junk heap, and more recently helped bring United and Delta to their knees. Sure, it is hard work. But, they wonder, what might be next?
"This place has pushed employees to the breaking point," said Dan Johnson, 55, who started in 1971 as a Southwest ramp worker and now works in air traffic control. "It's part of why we're successful."



Helping to send airlines like Pan Am and Eastern to the 'junk heap' is kind of an odd thing to be proud of....

 

[SWA/FO]

Its been covered Green... Your next!!!

Just kidding - really we had nothing to do with all da stuff.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Helping to send airlines like Pan Am and Eastern to the 'junk heap' is kind of an odd thing to be proud of....

Dude, get a grip. Southwest did not send companies like Pan Am and Eastern to the 'junk heap'. Those companies did it to themselves.

Southwest found a niche. They are very very very good at that niche and they dont stray from it. They have also broken the code on how to offer rock bottom fares, pay their employees very well, and run a very profitbable airline.

Pan Am, Eastern, Delta, UAL etc etc are all case studies on what not to do.

 

[Green]

Of course in the old days you didn't have to "push employees to the breaking point" to be a successful airline. Thanks to SWA now you have to work your arse off just to get by. Thanks SWA......

just flippin you sh#t SWAFO. cheers....

 

[Green]

Dude, get a grip. Southwest did not send companies like Pan Am and Eastern to the 'junk heap'. Those companies did it to themselves.

Southwest found a niche. They are very very very good at that niche and they dont stray from it. They have also broken the code on how to offer rock bottom fairs, pay their employees very well, and run a very profitbable airline.

Pan Am, Eastern, Delta, UAL etc etc are all case studies on what not to do.

DUDE...

I'm not the one who floated that idea out there. I believe it was the NY Times. I merely quoted them, as in, someone else wrote the article and I pasted it.....

 

[slaquer5]

deleated

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Accustomed only to success, it is as if they do not want to miss out on the rest of the story. They helped Southwest send big-name airlines like Pan Am and Eastern to the junk heap, and more recently helped bring United and Delta to their knees. Sure, it is hard work. But, they wonder, what might be next?
"This place has pushed employees to the breaking point," said Dan Johnson, 55, who started in 1971 as a Southwest ramp worker and now works in air traffic control. "It's part of why we're successful."

Helping to send airlines like Pan Am and Eastern to the 'junk heap' is kind of an odd thing to be proud of....

The past has been subject to revisionist editing. Southwest did not send Pan Am or Eastern anywhere. The players affected by Southwest (and American!), largely in Texas, were Braniff and another carrier I can't recall. But in more recent times, since Pan Am and Eastern folded, Southwest has had a big effect on Delta and UAL. But you forgot all the carriers AA, Delta and UAL have sent to the junk heap. Peoples express, Kiwi, etc. I think competition from Southwest has been no more severe and definitely more ethical. When the hedges "run out" in 2008 things will be back to normal. Dominant players, weaker players and emerging players in competition.

But tell me, how did the likes of Delta and UAL lose $300 mil last quarter with JetBlue wages and lucrative international routes? No sarcasm here, I am scratching my head about this. Hedges don't make that much of a difference. AA, Cal and USAir didn't suffer the same loss last quarter.

 

[Green]

I think UAL lost 300 million because the executives were too busy figuring out how to divy up $400 million in management awards. They couldn't be bothered with running the airline's operations.

 

[Dangerkitty]

DUDE...

I'm not the one who floated that idea out there. I believe it was the NY Times. I merely quoted them, as in, someone else wrote the article and I pasted it.....

Well then ue the quote function. It's quite handy.

 

[CaptainMark]

.....................

 

[Dangerkitty]

The past has been subject to revisionist editing. Southwest did not send Pan Am or Eastern anywhere. The players affected by Southwest (and American!), largely in Texas, were Braniff and another carrier I can't recall. But in more recent times, since Pan Am and Eastern folded, Southwest has had a big effect on Delta and UAL. But you forgot all the carriers AA, Delta and UAL have sent to the junk heap. Peoples express, Kiwi, etc. I think competition from Southwest has been no more severe and definitely more ethical. When the hedges "run out" in 2008 things will be back to normal. Dominant players, weaker players and emerging players in competition.

But tell me, how did the likes of Delta and UAL lose $300 mil last quarter with JetBlue wages and lucrative international routes? No sarcasm here, I am scratching my head about this. Hedges don't make that much of a difference. AA, Cal and USAir didn't suffer the same loss last quarter.

FBJ,

Actually AA had very little to do with it. The carriers that tried to squash LUV in the beginning was Braniff and Texas International. Well, we know the rest of the story. SWA kicked the snot out of them.

DK

 

[Flopgut]

The past has been subject to revisionist editing. Southwest did not send Pan Am or Eastern anywhere. The players affected by Southwest (and American!), largely in Texas, were Braniff and another carrier I can't recall. But in more recent times, since Pan Am and Eastern folded, Southwest has had a big effect on Delta and UAL. But you forgot all the carriers AA, Delta and UAL have sent to the junk heap. Peoples express, Kiwi, etc. I think competition from Southwest has been no more severe and definitely more ethical. When the hedges "run out" in 2008 things will be back to normal. Dominant players, weaker players and emerging players in competition.

But tell me, how did the likes of Delta and UAL lose $300 mil last quarter with JetBlue wages and lucrative international routes? No sarcasm here, I am scratching my head about this. Hedges don't make that much of a difference. AA, Cal and USAir didn't suffer the same loss last quarter.

Peoples Express bought Frontier and then was acquired by CAL. PE is the reason CAL has the EWR base. I don't know that any airline did them in, they were poorly run.

Not too sure about SWA competition being ethical. SWA takes up a lot of "personal space". Literally at Love Field, and figuratively in the operation. You fly/taxi very fast and stretch the airport and ATC system limitations. I am continuously being sequenced at places like SAT behind a paniced sounding SWA airplane. Coincidentally, I have had to do several go arounds at SAT for SWA, most recently so your airline could make the reverse high speed. That was a 737-900 flaps 30 apch where ref is in excess of 155k. Some 737 apch seeds are incompatiable, its somewhat worse for other fleets, yet anywhere you go everone has to adapt to how you do things.

There is a double standard for legacies. We are looking for revenue in international operations and simultaneously the government wants to expand foriegn investment. The goal in that it seems is to squash the business plan we're hoping is our saving grace. I submit to you that if foriegn control was a SWA/LCC detriment, it would be a non-starter.

UAL and DAL can't make money because their planes don't fly enough hours. Mgts at those two carriers are clueless and have singuliarly focused on destroying careers, demoralizing employees, and abandoning creditors. And, of course, paying themselves.

SWA's good luck and favor is probably worth more than your fuel program. I don't want you to lose that, but I would like to see a few other carriers enjoy a little.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

You fly/taxi very fast and stretch the airport and ATC system limitations. I am continuously being sequenced at places like SAT behind a paniced sounding SWA airplane. Coincidentally, I have had to do several go arounds at SAT for SWA, most recently so your airline could make the reverse high speed. That was a 737-900 flaps 30 apch where ref is in excess of 155k. Some 737 apch seeds are incompatiable, its somewhat worse for other fleets, yet anywhere you go everone has to adapt to how you do things.

Thanks for the input Flopgut.

I agree with the fast comments. SWA does try to be flexible by maintaining 210 to final or 170 to the marker.

I don't know why we are considered slow on final by you. If a SWA plane is following AA or UAL we slow down or increase the spacing. Otherwise, we would have to go around.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not too sure about SWA competition being ethical. SWA takes up a lot of "personal space". Literally at Love Field, and figuratively in the operation. You fly/taxi very fast and stretch the airport and ATC system limitations. I am continuously being sequenced at places like SAT behind a paniced sounding SWA airplane. Coincidentally, I have had to do several go arounds at SAT for SWA, most recently so your airline could make the reverse high speed. That was a 737-900 flaps 30 apch where ref is in excess of 155k. Some 737 apch seeds are incompatiable, its somewhat worse for other fleets, yet anywhere you go everone has to adapt to how you do things.

Sorry Flopgut, but I had to chuckle when I read your response to competition.

I read your reply as typical to us pilots. We only see and understand within our own universe. When you replied to competition you did so in the only way we know how.... operation of the jet...

Actually I believe, hard core, cut throat SWA competition has much to do more with the business tactics and strategy. Selling tickets, how many seats, which routes, their productivity, thier cutlure, etc....

 

[Gorilla]

Just a click and paste special, Baby!!!

Dick Vitale? Is that you buddy? I didn't know you fly for SWA!

The future will be interesting. Anyone who thinks fuel hedges don't do much is puffing a fresh crack rock in a soda can.

Too bad the cut and paste didn't include wide-body pay. Nothing against SWA, that style of flying doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather watch the Northern lights Eastbound over the North Atlantic at 62 N., or the sunrise illuminating the East coast of Greenland, than get flogged by dense traffic and ATC in the New England corridor.

Regardless, SWA guys have always been great. Let's just get along, and strive for good schedules, a mellow lifestyle, and truckloads of cash for all pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

FBJ & Rez:

When SWA picks a new airport the whole flow of traffic changes.

I flew A trip one month that ended with a SAT turn out of IAH in a 900. I got slowed and sequenced behind SWA every time, I was on apch frequency and SWA was still with the center!

Airport and operational stuff notwithstanding, the overall favor SWA enjoys is what I would like to see extended to others. That foriegn investment/control thing stinks! Its written to hammer the legacies.

 

[Ty Webb]

I think that ATC at PHL has improved since SWA got there, and I suspect it has to do with SWA finessing/schmoozing them, but I think it has been beneficial to all . . . . Remember how they used to snarl at you if you tried to figure out your departure sequence like it was none of your business? Now, they broadcast the sequence so often it's almost a nuisance. Someone edumacated them about single-engine taxi/second engine warm-ups, and it's been beneficial to all.

I complained on this very board a year or so ago about SWA's aggressive taxiing, but I haven't noticed it lately . . . . maybe more SWA Captains read this board than I thought!

Also, DAL's problems had a whole lot more to do with the buffoonery of management than SWA.

 

[Lame Lizard]

I complained on this very board a year or so ago about SWA's aggressive taxiing, but I haven't noticed it lately . . . . maybe more SWA Captains read this board than I thought!

Wow Ty, you saved us all. How on earth did you do it? That's telling those Southwest Captains.

 

[Flopgut]

Philly is an excellent example. Nobody wanted to do anything to help USAir out, SWA shows up and suddenly the airport and ATC start to care.

 

[canyonblue]

Philly is an excellent example. Nobody wanted to do anything to help US Air out, SWA shows up and suddenly the airport and ATC start to care.

Having an excellent company ATC representative, who was a former controller, is the reason. He spent time in the tower asking questions and offering suggestions and working with the PHL folks. He worked hard to make PHL work for us, any other airline could have done that, but how many really tried?

 

[Fearless Leader]

Rez O. Lewshun

WOW what a babe in the Avatur Dude!!!!

I want to fly corporate!!!!
Tired of the hags and fags

 

[Ty Webb]

What a freak!

Wow Ty, you saved us all. How on earth did you do it? That's telling those Southwest Captains.

Shut yer pie-hole, Chuck, or we'll have the moderators run your ip address and block you permanently. What would you do, if you couldn't anonymously hurl insults at those who you feel so inferior to?

I guess you'd be stuck at your other favorite website . . . chickswithdicks.com or whatever.


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