Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Rebuilding a Lycoming 0-540

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Check Essential

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Posts
75
My father is building an RV10 as a retirement project. This is his first build. Although he's had his private pilot license for 40+ years and has owned light singles in the past, GA is not the focus of his life and he hasn’t been active for nearly 10 years.

I fly for the airlines and have somewhat lost touch with GA over the years and don’t feel fully qualified to guide him in this process.

That being said, my father has located a Lycoming 0-540 from a wrecked Comanche that he is considering buying to rebuild for his RV project. The Comanche crashed into trees killing the pilot about 8 years ago. The crash was not the result of engine failure. The pilot was attempting to land at night on a runway not approved for night ops and subsequently collided with tress on approach. Witnesses at the time supposedly described hearing the engine “rev up” before it quit. The prop separated so it’s possible/likely that the engine over-sped before shutting down. The mags are a loss as well as one of the jugs which had fin damage, both as a result of contact with the firewall.

The person who has the engine for sale said the crank has been magnifluxed and shows no sign of cracks. It was also checked for straightness and is true. The case has been visually inspected and shows no cracks. This will all be reverified by a third party prior to sale.

My father plans to replace all of the jugs (he has some kind of ceramic aftermarket jug in mind) and install an electronic ignition system as well as fuel injection. All of the remaining parts would be magnifluxed as necessary before sale and the case would be professionally examined for cracks.

Assuming the engine can be had for a reasonable price, I’m curious what would be required to sell some of the parts (the 5 remaining jugs for instance) w/o misrepresenting them? In other words, who can legally inspect parts and label them as serviceable? Can this be done by any A&P or does it need to be an AI? Or someone else?

Obviously all of the rings and bearings would be replaced. I’m also assuming it would be smart to replace the camshaft.

I spoke with the seller and asked whatever questions I could come up with. The prop governor “appears” to be okay. I don’t know what’s involved with inspecting/rebuilding one of these. The seller has “lot’s of starters sitting around” and I think the alternator was also a loss. The carb has a crack that the seller thinks can be repaired, but again, my father wants to convert this to an injected engine.

If we can get this engine cheap, and sell some of the unused parts, it might be worth doing.

I’m interested in getting some perspective.

TIA.

CE
 
Last edited:
First of all, you would be really foolish to undertake the project. Second of all, anyone who purchases any parts off this engine that you elect to sell would be foolish to do so.

You cited the fact that the crankshaft has been magnafluxed. That tells you nothing about being "true," only that it doesn't have obvious cracks. If the engine experienced sudden stoppage such that the propeller was separated, you can certainly count on crank damage, evident or not. Particularly on a 540, reusing that crank might be possible, but then so is suicide.

Whitnesses reported hearing the engine rev up before it quit. Why did it "quit?"

You want to sell the cylinders from the engine and have them "certified" as servicable. Why doesn't your father want to use them, if they're servicable?

It's very difficult to remove parts of a destroyed engine and call them removed as servicable, because the engine is not servicable. Anybody can put a yellow tag or a green tag on those items, but that doesn't make them airworthy. A repair station certified for the components in question can inspect them in accordance with manufacturer tolerances and publications, and issue an airworthiness release...but there's expense involved, and chances are it's not worth it in this case.

Obviously all of the rings and bearings would be replaced. I’m also assuming it would be smart to replace the camshaft.

No, no. By all means, keep the camshaft. Replace the engine that goes around it.

If we can get this engine cheap, and sell some of the unused parts, it might be worth doing.

When your life depends upon it, is "cheap" really a consideration? Cheap can be far too expensive, don't let it lure you down that path.

The prop governor “appears” to be okay.

That reminds me of pilots who preflight and say "looks like all the big pieces are still there." It appears okay. Good enough for me.

All of the remaining parts would be magnifluxed as necessary before sale and the case would be professionally examined for cracks.

You love that magnafluxing, don't you? Doesn't everybody? Professionally examining for cracks is much better than having parts examined for cracking by nonprofessionals. The only damage a part can sustain is cracking...no cracking, the part is hunky dory. Magnafluxing is peace of mind.

You can do better.
 
Thanks for all the sarcasm. As I said, I’m trying to gain perspective and educate myself.

With regard to the crank, I realize magnifluxing only reveals cracks and has nothing to do with determining if the crank is straight. Perhaps I could have been more clear in my original statement (I've gone back and reworded). The crank was mangnifluxed and shows no signs of cracks. It was also reportedly checked to see if it was bent.

My father has been doing his own reading for some time and decided long ago that there was a specific brand/type of jug he wants to use. I don’t know much about them, but that is why he doesn’t want/need the jugs that would come with this engine.

In so far as why did the engine quit? I guess because the plane crashed! It had to stop sometime! All kidding aside, I have no idea what happened that night. It was a long time ago and all of this info is third hand.

That being said, I’ve advised him against this from the beginning. But I can’t make this decision for him. That’s why I’m trying to educate myself as much as possible.

CE
 
Last edited:
Geez man... it kind of gives me a funny feeling using a motor that drove someone into the ground. Is it a big cost savings or why doesnt he find a motor he doesnt have to do all the work to? I am looking for a 0-360 right now so I feel your fathers questions.
 
The wonderful thing about homebuilts is that you can decide your own level of risk. That puts all the responsibility on the builder. Buying and rebuilding engines that have been in accidents is not uncommon in the world of homebuilding.

This engine CAN be rebuilt, wether or not is should is the question.


What you are basicly buying is a case, crankshaft, camshaft, and some accessories. If these parts are inspected by a good NDT (non destructive test) inspector, and they are within specs then they are OK. You are not requried to have an A&P do this since the engine is going into a homebuilt, but I would if I were in your shoes. Every single part of this engine which is going to be resued needs to be carefully examined, and must meet the specifications set in the manual. If it does meet these specs, then you can trust it.

FYI you can not Magnaflux aluminum parts shuch as the case, it is possible to have a florucent dye penatrant inspection performed which will show any cracks.


I would proced cautiously, but nothing I have heard is an automatic showstopper.

PS, I know AVBUG disagrees with me as he has in the past. Take both of our advice and make your own decision.
 
USMCmech said:
FYI you can not Magnaflux aluminum parts shuch as the case, it is possible to have a florucent dye penatrant inspection performed which will show any cracks.
This is what they would have performed prior to sale.

Thank you. I could not think of the proper terminology for that type of inspection.

CE
 
88_MALIBU said:
Geez man... it kind of gives me a funny feeling using a motor that drove someone into the ground. Is it a big cost savings or why doesnt he find a motor he doesnt have to do all the work to? I am looking for a 0-360 right now so I feel your fathers questions.
Apparently it could be a big cost savings. That is still being calculated.

I think mostly he wants the hands on experience of building the engine (with the supervision of an A&P from his EAA chapter) so he will have a much more intimate knowledge down the line in terms of maintenance.

CE
 
How much savings are we talking here? By the time your dad has everything inspected/tested and replaces or overhauls the components (which will be virtually everything), he probably will have spent 75% the cost of an overhaul. Buy a timed out 540 and rebuild that, or better yet have a quality shop do it. If you want a good builder in the phoenix area PM me, the company I work for runs (5) IO540 powered A/C and I've been very happy with our builder.

removed link....206 conversion not what I thought it was.
 
Last edited:
Well, this doesn't prove anythning one way or another, but, let's say that instead of selling the engine to your dad, the seller returned it to lycoming as a core exchange for a factory reman O-540.....maybe he replaced the damaged cylinder and the mags with a junk cylinder and mags which weren't impact damaged before returning it....what's going to happen to the engine? Well, lycoming will tear it down. They will inspect, magnaflux and dimensionally check the Crank, con rods, cam and possibly the accessory drive gears. If they pass inspection, they get new bushings, bearings resurfaced, and bores honed and go in a big bin of other parts. The case would be dimensionally checked and inspected with a dye penetrant. If it passes, they too will go in a big bin , perhaps after having the parting surfaces machined and the camshaft and crank saddles align bored. The cylinders will be discarded. Lycoming will then dip into these bins of parts and assemble "zero time" factory remanufactured engines. The same parts won't come back together in one engine, as they don't rebuild individual engines, but the parts if they pass inspection will mostly be re-used. Lycoming really doesn't care if you return a running engine for a core, all they want is for everything to be there, and the major parts be reusable. (if a crank has to be discarded or a case extensively reworked, they reduce your core credit)

So, if your dad has all this same inspection work done to proper standards, he will end up with an engine which will have the same exact same assurance of airworthiness as a "zero time" factory remanufactured engine from Lycoming.

My point is not that there are not serious concerns with rebuilding an engine which was in a wreck, certainly there are. My intent is to put it in perspective, to wit: Those exact same concerns are present in every "zero time" factory reman that lycoming (and continental) ship out with new logbooks. And it is certainly possible for your father to address those concerns to the same degree that Lycoming addresses them.
 
Last edited:
If that engine has been sitting around for 8 years you should send it out to get overhauled. After sitting that long the cylinders probably have bad glazing. corosion. In his best interest tell him to have it profesionally overhauled.
 
I'm not clear on how the prop could have "separated" without damaging the crank. Did you mean a blade left the hub? Don't think I'd ever trust that engine again, and it's been sitting a really long time, probably with little to no preservation.

I can appreciate your Dad's wish to build the engine to go with his aircraft, but I think I'd try to convince him to buy a rebuilt/reman. Or at least a good condition run-out. There will be lots of "custom building" to do in setting up the installation and panel and interior.
 
nwf800 said:
After sitting that long the cylinders probably have bad glazing. corosion. In his best interest tell him to have it profesionally overhauled.
He was planning to use aftermarket cylinders.


Vector4fun said:
I'm not clear on how the prop could have "separated" without damaging the crank. Did you mean a blade left the hub? ...I think I'd try to convince him to buy a rebuilt/reman....
Yes, as far as I know, the prop left the hub.

I think I've been successful in steering him away from this engine.

CE
 

Latest resources

Back
Top