Really CAL vs DAL

[Cougar96]

I'm sitting in the seat for both. I've done my research, but still stuck on which way to go. I've got a Jun 4 start date with DAL and October start with CAL. I'm looking for informative replies from folks at either! Thanks

 

[minrest]

That's awesome. I've been at CAL for a year and enjoy it. Why don't you go to DAL on June 4, see what you think, and jump ship in October for CAL if you're not happy?

-minrest

 

[General Lee]

I'm sitting in the seat for both. I've done my research, but still stuck on which way to go. I've got a Jun 4 start date with DAL and October start with CAL. I'm looking for informative replies from folks at either! Thanks

Both are good companies, that offer some variety in planes and bases. Delta has retired most of their captains for awhile, so all of the current hiring is due to expansion only. There are a lot of rumors of things to come, and the board will be meeting soon to decide on most of that. Continental is also hiring for growth, but also for scheduled retirements that may not happen if age 65 is enacted. That is a big question mark there. Next I would ask yourself where you want to live? Look at the different bases and decide on what is best for you. Most of Continental's widebody flying is out of EWR, and any widebody flying in IAH is very senior from what I hear. That is not the case for Delta, since ATL, JFK, SLC, LAX, and CVG have 757/767 bases, with LAX and ATL having 764 bases, and ATL having the only current 777 base. The upgrade at CAL is pretty fast now, but again that could slow if age 65 happens, and that quicker upgrade has been only at EWR currently. If you don't mind living near EWR, then that may be for you. The pay difference early on between DAL and CAL is significant. DAL pays $49 an hour 1st year, and if you get MD88 your second year pay will be $68 an hour, and the 737-800 would be $75 an hour. CAL is about $30 an hour (with yor own insurance payments needed for your 1st 6 months), with $72 an hour for the 737/300/500/700/800/900 in your 4th year. (there may be some bonus when you fly the -800 or -900 though, which could boost your pay, although those trips might be more senior for that reason)

It comes down to where you want to live, and if you think it is better being in the beginning of a hiring wave, or in the middle/end. Also, age 65 could really be an important issue in the future at CAL, and their MEC is for it.


Good luck, and both airlines are great.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[puddlejumper101]

first question i would ask is where you live...where you want to live...and what kind of commute are you contemplating. If I was to base it on history...and the way things have turned for both carriers in the last few decades...along with how Mgmt. has handled the internal wars in both before then DAL is a definite winner. Mgmt and labor have had better relationships at DAL than CAL. If you have a class with DAL first...then I would take it. DAL has had its problems lately (who hasn't), but I think DAL has a tendency to treat their people better than CAL. If you look at it from the money stand point...long term DAL has always had better contracts than CAL...why would that change now? More unity at DAL also...too many variables at play but if I was in your shoes, unless I lived in Houston, I would take DAL even though the CAL seniority list looks mighty tempting. good luck...good position to be in.

 

[IAHERJ]

Minrest has a point. I would take the first job as being employed "now" is always a good thing. As for the two companies, well you are going to get a load of various responses and then the thread will probably turn into a "my airline is better than yours" competition.

Having been at CAL for over a year and a half(came from AirTran and COEX before that), I have to say that I like the company. I have friends at Delta and they love Delta. I will try to be unbiased and list a few points.

Today:

CAL has a contract that is inferior to DAL's. We will be working on that in the upcomming year(s).

CAL has a projected(this of course can change) upgrade time that is generally quicker than the projections at DAL.

DAL has more base choices than CAl

DAL has more widebodies and the opportunity to fly them both domestically and internationally. CAL is getting more but very few domestic widebody trips.

CAL has an overall good culture to work under(especially on the international side, FA's and pilots have a good time together etc.)

DAL has had it's recent ups and downs thus probably degragating the once great culture.

Hope some of this helps in your decision making process. Always remember that the airline you are looking at today may not be the airline you retire from in a few decades. Where Delta lags CAL in profitibality this year might not be where the two end up in 5 years. Thus where CAL lags in work rules for pilots today might not be where they end up in a few years.

Good luck.

IAHERJ

 

[IAHERJ]

GL is a bit off on the pay. Take a look at Airline Pilot Central for an understanding on the pay rates post first year(where he was correct and it is embarassing).

The 737(800,900) do pay higher and are about 50% of the fleet therefore everyone gets time in them. You might not be able to hold pure lines flying those two until you are half way up the seniority(on the 737)list but about half of your flying will be in them from the get go.

I also don't follow the logic that the age 65 thing will make a huge impact on going to CAL. Will it not effect Delta? So you go from expecting to be a captain in 2.5 years in EWR to 4 year upgrade. Will it not equally effect Delta's upgrade #'s, whatever they are? Most CAL pilots are leaning on retiring at 60 anyway and the majority of those who want to hang on will medical out before 65. Not trying to disrespect them but it tends to be those with high stress and financial strains who need to hang on for a few more years yet inversly suffer from medical conditions related to the stress that render them unable to continue as planned.

IAHERJ

 

[General Lee]

I would say the once great culture at Delta is slowly coming back. The takeover attempt by Parker and USAir did bring us together somewhat. I wouldn't say we sing Kumbaya together, but things have gotten better. We still have some old stews, but they are being replaced by newer, younger, language speakers on all of the INTL destinations we have added. It is definitely a better place now than it has been over the last couple years. Getting through BK is tough, but we all feel like it is getting better.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pianoman]

For me the choice was about where I want to live. I live near Newark, so the idea of having a network of people around for my expanding family is important. Also, living near Newark means hopefully I can take advantage of the forecasted quick movement in the base. Maybe you live closer to a Delta domicile.

I by no means think that CAL is the only place to work or even the best. Had I had a chance to go FedEx or UPS I would really be weighing the option of commuting or moving to take the job.

So far I am happy here; just trying not to go bankrupt for the 1st year or so.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[General Lee]

GL is a bit off on the pay. Take a look at Airline Pilot Central for an understanding on the pay rates post first year(where he was correct and it is embarassing).

The 737(800,900) do pay higher and are about 50% of the fleet therefore everyone gets time in them. You might not be able to hold pure lines flying those two until you are half way up the seniority(on the 737)list but about half of your flying will be in them from the get go.

I also don't follow the logic that the age 65 thing will make a huge impact on going to CAL. Will it not effect Delta? So you go from expecting to be a captain in 2.5 years in EWR to 4 year upgrade. Will it not equally effect Delta's upgrade #'s, whatever they are? Most CAL pilots are leaning on retiring at 60 anyway and the majority of those who want to hang on will medical out before 65. Not trying to disrespect them but it tends to be those with high stress and financial strains who need to hang on for a few more years yet inversly suffer from medical conditions related to the stress that render them unable to continue as planned.

IAHERJ

How many people do you have forcasted retiring in the next few years? A lot more than we do. So, you could be stuck at the bottom of a wave if hiring stops at CAL. We are hiring only for expansion puposes, so unless there is something huge like another 9-11, then we will continue to hire. Also, your main focus is EWR for any INTL flying (787s will likely be based there, maybe a few super senior ones in IAH), and your upgrades will take place there too. So, if you don't want to commute to EWR or live close to there, you are stuck in IAH, where movement is slower. I have also heard that CAL may double it's presence in CLE in the next year or so. If you like the CLE Browns, then that could be good. Otherwise, unless you grew up there I would not want to go there at all. I have flown in there a couple of times, and the Rock and Roll hall of fame is interesting....

As far as flying half and half of 737-800/900, you could get stuck in a month flying mostly 735 or 733 flights, and that could hurt your pay. Our MD88 rates and 738 rates for the first year are the same, and gives you a better forcast of your pay. Also, not having to pay for your own insurance for the first 6 months helps overall. Our second year pay jumps up, depending on your plane. The 737-800 goes to $75 an hour, which is pretty good, and the 757/767 is even higher.

Regardless, this is a good postion to be in for anyone looking at a couple potential airline jobs. When looking for differences in jobs, it can get emotional. This is a big decision for anyone.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ToThePain]

How many people do you have forcasted retiring in the next few years? A lot more than we do. So, you could be stuck at the bottom of a wave if hiring stops at CAL. We are hiring only for expansion puposes, so unless there is something huge like another 9-11, then we will continue to hire. Also, your main focus is EWR for any INTL flying (787s will likely be based there, maybe a few super senior ones in IAH), and your upgrades will take place there too. So, if you don't want to commute to EWR or live close to there, you are stuck in IAH, where movement is slower. I have also heard that CAL may double it's presence in CLE in the next year or so. If you like the CLE Browns, then that could be good. Otherwise, unless you grew up there I would not want to go there at all. I have flown in there a couple of times, and the Rock and Roll hall of fame is interesting....

As far as flying half and half of 737-800/900, you could get stuck in a month flying mostly 735 or 733 flights, and that could hurt your pay. Our MD88 rates and 738 rates for the first year are the same, and gives you a better forcast of your pay. Also, not having to pay for your own insurance for the first 6 months helps overall. Our second year pay jumps up, depending on your plane. The 737-800 goes to $75 an hour, which is pretty good, and the 757/767 is even higher.

Regardless, this is a good postion to be in for anyone looking at a couple potential airline jobs. When looking for differences in jobs, it can get emotional. This is a big decision for anyone.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I also do not think the age 65 change will have a significant effect on CAL. Most of the guys I have flown with want to retire and the ones that want to work beyond are looking at retiring at 62. As IAHERJ correctly points out in a lot of cases the guys that really want to stay on/need to stay beyond 60 also tend to be guys that are more likely to have health issues for various reasons..
I would say that it is a darn near impossibility to get stuck with a 735 or 733. I have just finished my first year and never had more than a 1/2 month on these aircraft . If you figure in that we are getting rid of 15 733's next year for 15 739's and that we are getting an additional 15 739's on top of that it is unlikely that this will be an issue. As for the 787 no one knows for certain what the plans are. There are rumours that CAL will reopen a LAX base or that they will use them for long hauls out of IAH. If you live near EWR or plan to communte there then you could be sitting on the 777 in a year or less. I picked it up my 5th month here and will be sitting reserve at home guaranteed 76 hours a month at $71.64/hour to go over $73.20/hour this summer when rates increase.
The insurance thing is blown up way too much. No the company doesnt give you insurance when you start. They give you all the supp. insurance information. Put your deductible high until for the first 6 months (and don't do anything crazy and until you get CALS, the monthly expense isnt that bad. The first year pay sucks and is inexcusable but hopefully that will change with the next contract (it is also in line with what UAL, NWA and AA pay first year) Plan B is great, will be over 12% this summer which is one of the best if not the nest in the industry.
CAL is also growing an average of 6% per year, not bad growth when you consider all the aircraft that are coming are large narrowbody or wide body.
In the end go with where you feel most comfortable. Both companies should be around for a while. I would go with where you want to live. All my family lives in the NE so that is where I chose to hang my hat. To each his own.